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  4. Velocity Xfade: Best method?

  • Velocity Xfade: Best method?

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    Hi there,

    in the last few weeks I had to prroduce and deliver my music very quickly and I was(and I still am) a VI beginner, so I had not enough time to get the most out of VI and Logic, especially the stunning velocity crossfade function.

    As I have a bit more time now I want to find the best method for using this great feature because it really brings some real life into the rather static programmed music.

    How do you guys use it?

    In real time with a midi controller or via automation?

    I think realtime is a bit tricky because you have to move your controller very precisly.

    Is there a good and fast way to automate xfade in Logic? 

    Or is there any other method? 

    Looking forward to reading some suggestions!

    christof 
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    If Logic has a piano roll editor, there should be a space for midi controllers and envelopes that you can use.  I find it helpful using it live coupled with the Expression Controller ( I have 4 controller sliders, the the Velc Xfer and the Expression controller are mapped to 2 sliders together.)  Then I can go to the Piano Roll (in SONAR) and edit the envelops of whatever controllers I mapped.

    Frankz.

    1. Play the passage live

    2. Playback and record MIDI Controller Sliders that affect Veloc Xfer and Expression

    3. GoTo Piano Roll and make adjustments to your performance with the envelops created

    or

    1. Play the passage live with the MIDI Controllers

    2. GoTo Piano Roll and make adjustments to your performance with the envelops created
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    Christof- check this post out:::

    Something about Logic Lanes and not the same as MIDI Controller Numbers?
    Frankz.
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    Hi Christof,

    I use the Yamaha BC3 breath controller.

    I feel its truely the best way to automate Velocity X-fade, Filter, Exp, even Cell X-fade if I'm going from sustain
    to tremolo for instance.

    Reason why I feel this is the best way is because my hands are free play and don't have to do anything else.

    Plus I get a more natural this way since the phrasing and breath are linked.

    If you choose to use the BC3 it requires that your controller have a breath controller inputport.
    I use the UF8 from CME. If you don't have that port you can then buy an interface that converts the BC data
    to standard midi controller information that can be mapped. Here is a link to that:

    http://www.amazon.com/MIDI-Solutions-Breath-Controller-Converter/dp/B000VPOXBG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1195832125&sr=8-1

    It does take an hour or so to get used to using it but its a lot of fun once its configured properly.

    Enjoy!

    DM
  • J
    J

    Christof,

    I use it in Logic and what I do is pretty much what the others have said in this thread. To put it all together for you:

    - Assign Vel Xfade & Expression to CC2 by right-clicking on both (also for added realism you might want to change the power response curves for both Vel Xfade & Expression in the VI interface)

     - Use a BC3 breath controller – you can use it during recording or in a pass after the initial recording & glue tool the cc data into the original track.

     - or in the Matrix (v.7) or Piano Roll (v.8) you can go to the Arrange>View menu and add Hyperdraw for Breath and draw in any changes.

    Important comment – this works correctly only for articulations of multiple instruments, not solo instruments because you will hear the phasing between samples.

    Best regards, Jack

  • M
    M

    Forgive the ignorant question but, using a breath controller, what happens when you run out of breath on long sustained notes (on strings, for instance)?

    Surely the notes will taper off to 0db? Or is there some way to "lock" the last level while you take a quick breath?

    I am seriously considering a breath controller for my setup, so I'd appreciate the info.

    Thanks,

    Mike.
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    Good question.

    I had this problem at first, then I got online and found a site that provides
    a guide to learn cirrcular breathing.

    It took me awhile to learn and I'm still not all there yet but thats how
    I plan on solving this issue.

    Maybe someone else has a better solution.

    Thanks,
    DM
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    I'm using a Yamaha Motif ES8 as my main controller. Logic 7.1 (planning to move to Logic 8 soon).  I prefer to perform the dynamics and expression as I play the notes and then edit the controller data (if needed) in the piano roll editor. 

    Vienna Instruments is about live control and with all the control options I’ve found some challenging (but rewarding) configurations. I like keeping expression and velocity xfade separate even though I tend to move them in parallel – it adds just a little more variety (some quiet notes are a little brighter than others) .

    I’ve tried a few things for vel. xfade. First I set the ribbon controller on the Motif as the velocity xfade switch. Through tweaking the curve in the VI interface for the switch controller, I was able to activate an area at the top end of the ribbon as the “on” position (the bottom two thirds is the “off” position). The ribbon defaults to the middle value, which translates to off.   

    Then I set the pitch bend wheel as the continuous velocity xfade controller. Again, I tweaked the curve in VI SE, this time so that the middle (detent) position is set to about 20% of the scale. I can get less than 20% velocity by "pitching down" but most of the time I’m in the top half of the wheel range, yet covering about 80% of the velocity range. 

    When I want velocity xfade, I just put my left thumb in the upper area of the ribbon and use my middle or ring finger to control the velocity dynamics. That leaves my index finger for cell xfade and my left foot for expression pedal. That's one configuration. I'm also using the breath controller for some instruments.

    Carlos  

    @Christof Unterberger said:

    As I have a bit more time now I want to find the best method for using this great feature because it really brings some real life into the rather static programmed music.

    In real time with a midi controller or via automation?

    I think realtime is a bit tricky because you have to move your controller very precisly.

    Is there a good and fast way to automate xfade in Logic? 

     
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    @manukastudios_7945 said:

    Forgive the ignorant question but, using a breath controller, what happens when you run out of breath on long sustained notes (on strings, for instance)?

    Surely the notes will taper off to 0db? Or is there some way to "lock" the last level while you take a quick breath?

    I am seriously considering a breath controller for my setup, so I'd appreciate the info.

    Thanks,

    Mike.

     

    I'm using a Yamaha BC3 with my Motif ES8. There is a little dial on the side where you can set the minimum value so it doesn't have to go to zero when you run out of breath. There is also a response strength dial on the BC3, I can set a response curve on the keyboard and, of course, there is also a response curve in the VI interface. 

    Like others here, it took me about an hour to get used to it (and feel like I hadn't wasted my money) and several more hours to get good at it. I love it for brass swells. Not sure yet if it works for strings (for me) but I have the other method with the pitch bend wheel (described earlier in this tread).  

    Carlos

      
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    @manukastudios_7945 said:

    Forgive the ignorant question but, using a breath controller, what happens when you run out of breath on long sustained notes (on strings, for instance)?

    Surely the notes will taper off to 0db? Or is there some way to "lock" the last level while you take a quick breath?

    I am seriously considering a breath controller for my setup, so I'd appreciate the info.

    Thanks,

    Mike.

    If you are using the BC for Expression (CC11) then there is the possibility that you will end up with no sound when you take a breath, but if you use it for Velocity xFade, this can't happen. However, also bear in mind that most of the instruments where Velocity xFade is pretty much useless are Woodwind and Brass instruments, where the players would need to breath anyway, so it's not a huge problem.

    I certainly wish that BC were more sophisticated, but I guess that there isn't really a big market for them.

    DG
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    Hello, I am also attempting to use my BC3 breath controller for velocity crossfades, and am having problems getting a smooth resolution. I have a Yamaha S90 Keyboard with a breath controller input. I am getting much better results with the mod wheel, but would prefer to have my hands free to play the keyboard. I have tried all of the adjustments on the BC3 as well as on the Vienna instument itself. Tried changing all of the curves etc. For example, even when not blowing into the BC3, the slider on the velocity crossfade is moving and thus changing the sound! What are you guys doing to get a smooth and musical response with the breath controller? Mine seems to have a very uneven and uncontrollable response. Thanks to all for sharing your wisdom.
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    @eharris_6954 said:

    Hello, I am also attempting to use my BC3 breath controller for velocity crossfades, and am having problems getting a smooth resolution. I have a Yamaha S90 Keyboard with a breath controller input. I am getting much better results with the mod wheel, but would prefer to have my hands free to play the keyboard. I have tried all of the adjustments on the BC3 as well as on the Vienna instument itself. Tried changing all of the curves etc. For example, even when not blowing into the BC3, the slider on the velocity crossfade is moving and thus changing the sound! What are you guys doing to get a smooth and musical response with the breath controller? Mine seems to have a very uneven and uncontrollable response. Thanks to all for sharing your wisdom.
     

    I found it was a bit jumpy if I had the sensitivity dial on the BC3 set too far. But I don't remember any setting where the sliders moved by themselves.

    Backing it off was not my first choice because I'm not a woodwind player by background. This meant that I had to use more air pressure but when I did it was more smooth (and I was more out of breath). I compensated by setting the BC3 so it did not go to zero when I was not blowing and then adjusted the curve in the keyboard and in VI so it responded more quickly to the breath.  Having said all that, I'm still figuring it out and I haven't found a setting that works perfectly right away for each instrument in every piece of music. 

    Good luck.