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64 bit vienna instruments
Last post Mon, Jan 14 2008 by Chuck Green, 18 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Dec 28 2007 18:09
by kcorbin
Joined on Thu, Mar 04 2004, Newton, MA, USA, Posts 23

Is there any thought to releasing a 64 bit version of the  VI application.  I know the ensemble is 64 bit, and the instrumetns running inside this are 64 bit, but standalone or running as a vst in an application it is still a 32 bit app.

Posted on Fri, Dec 28 2007 20:05
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9049

correct me if i'm wrong - i think at least VST 2.4 is needed for native 64bit support - everything else is using the VSTbridge or BitBridge (32bit VST runs within 64bit host)

to have a standalone player in 64bit ... hmm ... is there anything you could load to pass 4 GB in a single player which makes sense?

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 03:28
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
Hi Christian,

EastWest is promising that their Play engine will be able to address all the RAM on a Mac. There in testing now and should have a release out in the next couple of weeks. Is VI working on the same?

Chuck

Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 05:10
by CplusE
Joined on Thu, Jul 26 2007, Posts 66

OK Chuck, please don't say East West. But it nice to chit chat with you. All smiles.

Iv been waiting about 5-6 months for EastWest to release the Piano to have them say it in development. That company is lost like a rat in a maze.

So when you say they have fix for the ram issue, i think that is a long wait until 6-8 month for them to tell me again it in development.

Then when it comes to VSL as a company as a hole, they come out with products that works and goes beyond  what we expected. Yes I'm still looking forward to the piano, but i hate to sayt  "Eastwest is all talk". VSL is all business. Eastwest has promised allot but only comes thru months later and when it does there's so many problems and many updates.

But what Iv seen with VSL and I'm new to the world of VSL. I know when they say something, it is always worth the wait and they are far beyond what we a assuming they have coming out. I just think there waiting for the computer power to catch up to them. Allot of us cant afford slave systems to run system but knowing there skills from what they have out already, it will be coming soon in one little compact system. 

Disclaimer:I am not a sale's person or any part of VSL company.  I wish i was.....

O and Happy New Year to everyone In the World.......Cool

iMac i7
Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 08:47
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9049

ahem ...  CplusE ... since the forum of this community is directly bound to the website of VSL opposed to other forums which are presenting themselves as independent sites, we would aprecciate to not directly tackle specific companies beeing in the same business which might not want to reply and/or give ones's own view here ...  thank you for the kind words referring to VSl though ...

 

64 bit for windows is no question and in fact out and working with any Vienna Instruments Collection/Library - i don't see a need to recompile the VI for 64bit and the tool of choice would be the VE for obvious reasons. in case it turns up to be important i think it would be a question of hours to publich a 64bit version for VI too.

 

the mac is another story and i've been feeding this thred with a lot of information about details - in a nutshell: we are missing a tiny but important link in the chain to compile a native 64bit version due to canceled support of 64bit carbon (please no more good advices about how and why and what VSL should develop using which tools ...)

this apperas to me to be a minor inconvenience since you can already run several instances to access all RAM you have and as common practice at VSL we will not announce a native 64bit version until we have it ready to download and use.

i've heard trolltech acquired lars knoll from the KDE project (to push the 64bit cocoa development?) and an updated version of the development environment is announced for spring 08

 

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 16:37
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
Hi Christian,


Help me understand..... You said we can already run several instances to access all RAM. I'm assuming you are referring to Vienna Instruments within a sequencer application such as Cubase. I'm using a single Mac Pro with 16GB and no slaves. I have plenty of CPU but bump up against a 3.0 GB RAM wall. What I am seeing in the activity monitor is that no matter how many instances of Vienna Instruments I have loaded, the server only shows up once and when I exceed the 3GB wall (the total RAM used of all instances) the system locks-up. Please correct me if I have something wrong here.


I understand that you can use Vienna Instruments in a sequencer, followed by using a stand-alone version of VI, then use Vienna Ensemble as separate instances or some other combination to eventually access all the RAM accessible on the machine. To do so, then one has to create various convolutions of routing audio back into the sequencer in order to get it to work all together. For me as a loyal customer with different expectations, that is an unacceptable approach.


I understand that the technology is new and that hardware and operating systems are constantly evolving. I also understand that communication between various companies developing the software and hardware does not flow in a manner that's conducive to providing the end-user customer with the optimal solutions in an expedient manner.


I will be the first to say, as many on this site have stated before, that the Vienna Library is one of the best if not the best orchestra libraries available today. I believe the number of articulations, the quality of the sound recordings, and the playability of the instrument is absolutely outstanding. Because I am so passionate about the quality that Vienna brings to the industry with it's libraries, I am also passionate in the desire to have the VI engine out-front in it's capabilities including addressing all RAM available.


Let's face it.... In the end, for us end-users, it not about the technology, the complications that arise during solution development, or the poor communication between various hardware and software companies.......it's about creating music and optimal work-flow required to support today's fast-pace, high-demanding industry.


All I'm asking.....is the VSL company placing a high priority on resolving the RAM limit so that we as end-users can use a single interface, whether it be Vienna Instruments or Vienna Ensemble configured in the manner that was intended when first released while breaking the memory barrier? I believe that anything is achievable if it is given the highest priority.

Please let me know if I'm missing the boat on my current understanding of our limitations pertaining to RAM and a single interface solution.

Have a great New Years Christian to you and your family.....

Chuck

Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 16:45
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
By the way Christian,

What do I have to do in order to get line-feeds between my paragraphs? It use to work when I was using Explorer but since I've switched to Safari, the problem has risen. I even tried multiple carriage returns in previous post with no luck. Is there something on my end I need to configure?

Chuck

Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 17:03
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Chuck, in order to get more than 3GB you have to run multiple standalones.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 17:04
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Chuck Green wrote:
By the way Christian, What do I have to do in order to get line-feeds between my paragraphs? It use to work when I was using Explorer but since I've switched to Safari, the problem has risen. I even tried multiple carriage returns in previous post with no luck. Is there something on my end I need to configure? Chuck

I'll get shouted at for this, but the simple answer is not to use Safari.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 18:09
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
DG,

As far as exceeding the 3GB I understand the multiple instances. I was hoping to hear that work by the VI development was being done on the VI engine so that a single instance of the server (i.e. used exclusively in Cubase for example - single configuration) would handle exceeding the 3GB limit.

I also was fearing that Safari was the culprit with the line-feeds on the forum. No configuration on my end to change is there using Safari?

Chuck

Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 18:26
by luces
Joined on Tue, Apr 03 2007, Posts 47

Hmm. My undertstanding is that this is EXACTLY what VE is addressing. I don't have a large amount of ram to access(yet Wink) so I cannot varify your problems. I read somewhere in the forum that Herb was running a 16 gig Mac using VE with tons of VI's loaded up.  Just wondering b/c I plan on using VE much more when I get my "dream machine" built.

Actually, I mentioned somewhere else that I wished VSL would make VE something of a VSTi rack that would/could support 3rd party synths. Kind of like a software FX Teleport. I don't know what the legal ramifications are,but man THAT WOULD ROCK!!!!Stick out tongue

Anyhow,keep up all the cool stuff VSL !

luces

Posted on Sat, Dec 29 2007 19:17
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9049

chuck, if this went down between my whining ... ;-)

depelopment is done and it is only a matter of time until we have the tools to give you the tools ... of course we all would love to have all in a single instance breaking the 4 GB on all platforms.

 

the safari issue is an issue with the used rich-text editor and as i assume the KJS engine  (javascript interpreter) safari is using - the community software is not the only one having troubles with it (actually the german OSX developer blog is affected ... haha)

 

possibly the limitation of the KJS call stack to 100 entries is the reason but we have already set up a new test system to investigate with different editors and/or settings - there is a lot of AJAX involved so i ask you for patience ... the guys developing tinyMCE are also working on a possible solution.

 

the workaround (for paragraphs in a post and other formatting options) would indeed be to use firefox on the mac for the moment

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sun, Dec 30 2007 00:34
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
Thank's Christian,,,

I won't loose any sleep over the lack of paragraphs. I just wanted to make sure that there was not some configuration that I could have done with Safari to prevent the formating issue. Thanks again.

Chuck

Posted on Thu, Jan 10 2008 16:31
by fitzpatton_14145
Joined on Sat, May 14 2005, New York, Posts 10
Hi DB,

How do you launch multiple standalones?

Fitz
Fitz
Posted on Fri, Jan 11 2008 15:57
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
Multiple standalones on the Apple platform (I'm referring to Ensemble only) can be launched by taking the application program and making multiple copies while changing each copies name (i.e. ensemble01, ensemble02, ensemble03 ect). When you launch ensemble 01, it has allocated it's own 2.5 GB of memory for it's use. Then launch ensemble02 and you pick up an additional 2.5 GB of memory. Continuing the process allows you to access as much RAM as you have available. Another approach I've seen people use is to launch 1 standalone of VI and then run VI in a sequencer. This provide 3.0 GB of RAM for the standalone and another 3.0 GB RAM for the instance launched in the sequencer application. Multiple instances with in a sequencer utilizes the same RAM space so you do not gain any additional RAM using that method. Multiple Ensembles on the Mac is where you gain the most from a RAM perspective. The issue then is addressing when using a stand-alone how to get the audio back to the sequencer -- another subject of which I'm not an expert by no means. On a PC, 64-bit gives it to you with a single instance.

Hope I answered you question clear enough......

Chuck

Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 20:02
by fitzpatton_14145
Joined on Sat, May 14 2005, New York, Posts 10
Chuck,

I want to thank you so much for your essential answer to my question. It's absolutely solved my problem.

Here's how to return the audio to a sequencer, should that prove important to you one day.

Go here:

http://www.cycling74.com/downloads/soundflower

Download soundflower for your operating system. It is a 24 bit, 96 khz sound driver that allows you to send 16 channels of audio between audio programs. You can monitor any of these channels through your built-in sound card.

I am using it now to channel audio between Main Stage, Vienna Ensemble and Digital Performer. It is flawless.

Again, many thanks for advancing my work this week. Tremendous.

Fitz


Fitz
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 23:40
by timkiel
Joined on Fri, Jun 06 2003, Posts 627
As an aside, is there any reason why the VE can't be made a Rewire slave? Seems like a
Intel Mac Pro (2 x 2.66 Xeon Dual Core, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 7300GT), RME Fireface 800, OS 10.6.4, Logic 9.1.1 (64-bit mode)
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 18:34
by Chuck Green
Joined on Thu, Dec 21 2006, Ann Arbor, MI (USA), Posts 518
Your welcome Fitz...... Glad I could be of some assistance.

Chuck

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