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Most Wanted New Articulations
Last post Sun, Feb 17 2008 by el-russo, 115 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 00:24
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

Since VSL users are somewhat like Frankenstein's monsters, but instead were created by Dr. Tucmandl and his hunchbacked assistant Dietz in a creepy old tower on a dark and stormy night, and after being created by him keep tormenting him though he tries to lead a normal life  - I thought I would write this post.

It consists of what I wish VSL would sample next.  Besides what they are already doing, like the Choir which of course is No. 1.

If anyone else has more ideas, please write them in, but the  items that I can think of right now are:

2) More Tam-tam FX and rolls.  Something like Rite of Spring tam-tam parts with sffz choked, and different speed soft mallet-roll crescendi somewhat like the current suspended cymbal rolls.  I don't mean the superball rolls - I mean a normal soft gong mallet.  Tam-tam A has a mallet roll but not enough variety.

3) Single desk violins, violas and cellos with two players each, and ALL normal articulations!!! Devil

4) Second solo violin with a softer, more lyrical and less brilliant tone and vibrato.  The original solo violin is fantastic and perfect for a brilliant soloist violin timbre but it would be nice to have the variety of a more mellow instrument and also use another as a separate second violin in quartets.  Also, with 2-player desks and two different solos it will become possible to completely duplicate almost any orchestral divisi possible with the Appassionata, Orchestral, Chamber, Solo and the new additional string articulations that this particular monster is begging for...

Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 00:33
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

1. Choir

2. MIR  impulses

3. Single desk violins

4. Epic Trumpets

5. Percussion - one never can have enough I think

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 00:44
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

Epic trumpets????  Huh!!!????

We already have Epic Trumpets with the a6 ensemble, not to mention all the others.  Sorry, I don't mean to contradict (yeah sure) but I wrote this thread and therefore am arrogant enough to request validation and excuses from anyone who writes in.  Also, with the divinely, supernally beautiful Cornet, the Trumpet solos, the Trumpets a3, and the Trumpets a6 I think you have awesomely Epic Trumpets already. 

And if you don't think they are Epic, wait till you here what I am now working on... Cool

Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 04:11
by Jack Weaver
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Tucson, AZ, Posts 391

Everything William said.

Mac Master:
2010 Mac Pro 12-core. 3.46GHz, 64 GB RAM, OSX 10.12.3, Logic Pro X 10.3.1 ,VEP5, SSD system drive, etc.

PC Slave:
12-core e5650, 48 GB RAM, Win7, MIR Pro/VEP5, SSD system drive
Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 09:14
by fritzflotow
Joined on Mon, Apr 23 2007, Posts 330

I agree with all string suggestions:

- second violin

- desks

in addition:

For all instruments (especially strings again) more techniques that enable you to be more flexible with non-neoromantic music (more non vibrato - especially strings non vibrato legato for less sweetness in a melody, extreme vibrato, col legno tratto, mutiphonics for woodwinds .... I have to say though, that for some sounds this would end up in sort of unflexible samples, that just add a certain color or texture. What I really like is a playable patch that leaves you with choices and what I don't like is more patches like runs or grace notes, where everything is prefabricated. Won't be easy with some advanced techniques... 

I'm not in such a hurry to get more percussion or ethnic intsruments, since there are also other developers doing a good job. I think VSL should stick with the plan to make every nuance of an orchestra possible - enough left to accomplish anyway. 

Choir and MIR - yes! Sure! 


Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 11:31
by yanock@yopmail.com
Joined on Sat, Dec 08 2007, Posts 1

 New instruments !

- Bandoneon

- Mandolin

- Banjo

- Pedal Steel guitar

Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 11:53
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
  • Choir with words
  • "Ethnic" instruments, with legato where appropriate
  • Full set of articulations for all String Collections
  • Shorter more punctuated staccatos for most Woodwind

However, my biggest wish is for improvements to the VI player, so that xFade works as well on solo instruments as it does with ensemble ones.

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 13:22
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1115
Solo vocalists with words in a dedicated box (or in one with choir with words) all ranges, styles and articulations [Different Sopranos (coloratura, dramatic, mezzo, etc. - heavier/lighter voices for operatic, lieder, musical theatre treatments etc.), and same for all lower voices], choirs with words (mixed, male, female, children) and what everyone else suggested, with emphasis on: the MIR project, operability improvements, and even further compatibility with a certain fruit company (including VSL's firstborn Pro Edition system)
If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Sat, Jan 12 2008 13:32
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 8106
Ladies and Gentlemen,

the situation is clear: WE NEED MORE COWBELL!!

-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOoA_bMKfH4

I put my pants on just like the rest of you - one leg at a time. Except - once my pants are on, I make gold records.
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 00:32
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

Yeah, should've explained it a bit William... thought the older a3 ensemble is not nearly as epic as the a6 fanfare trumpets and they'd deserve to be revisited, in a more epic attempt, but I know that's a thing not likely to happen in Vienna. This is a similar call like the 4 players french horn ensemble suggestion which VSL calculated too less demand for AFAIR. Anyway, how could I forget about that second solo violin with a different timbre than we've already got... adding that into my list as number 4. with the rest going down 1 on the list each. A personal favorite perhaps saxophone ensembles could be if done right...


A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 00:43
by clarkcontrol
Joined on Mon, May 03 2004, The Pagan Underground, Posts 315
Great ideas here; just thouht I would add my vote for extended techniques. The 'gypsy' string stuff was a great start. SOOOO...........I would LOVE twentieth century techniques to be worked in to the libraries. Very important, IMHO.----Clark
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 17:41
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1781


- accordion(s)

- recorder (treble, alt,...)

- chamber-/solo strings (old instruments for playing Baroque style)

- small nice baroque organ

- jazzy brass collection

...and as a man from the country where cheese and chocolate comes from - Switzerland:

I'm voting yes for more cowbells as well Smile   

Beat Kaufmann

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 18:28
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

There seems to be a consensus for divisi type strings and additional or "special" articulations.  This brings up another thread in which there was some discussion of how samples only"follow" what is done in orchestral practice. 

Wouldn't it be interesting if samples actually INITIATED orchestral practice?  or at least compositional practice, with in this case, sampling some new special techniques that have not be done before and were improvised at the sampling sessions.

Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 19:43
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec, Canada, Posts 286

Your proposal make me pleased!

A complete set of recorders,
(Bass, Alto, Tenor, Soprano and Sopranino) would be so nice!
As here: http://www.sampletekk.com/products.php?cat=45 or better!

Baroque organ or Neo-Classical organ would nice too!
like this:

Thanks again

Alain LeBlond

Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.14.6

Dorico 4, Notion6,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 20:15
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1781

Migot wrote:
...Baroque organ or Neo-Classical organ would nice too!
like this:

Thanks again
Alain LeBlond

I'd like to play on a G.Silbermann-Organ ( http://www.milandigitalaudio.com/organs.htm )

... but in a VI...


www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 21:12
by Monty
Joined on Thu, Jul 05 2007, Canada, Posts 10
How about a DVD package based on colour for solo instruments? It would contain only techniques for colour, mainly being able to play the same note in a variety of different ways through the use of extended techniques -
afterall it’s not just notes that make up a beautiful phrase. It would allow for less notes & more colour as an option.

I haven’t jumped on the VSL train as of yet, but this kind of package would definitely bring me and many others on board, especially now with VSE & VSE Plus.

Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 23:00
by PierreFunck
Joined on Tue, Feb 14 2006, Zurich, Posts 114

I second fritzflotow's wish for non-vibrato legato.

New instruments:

- baroque strings, including viola da gamba

- baroque woodwinds: traverso, baroque oboe, oboe da caccia

- baroque and Renaissance brass: cornetts and sackbutts, natural trumpet

(and the possibility to use non-equal tunings...)


Posted on Sun, Jan 13 2008 23:49
by Tripit
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Hollywood, Ca., Posts 350
I agree with William on the desks and the solo violin. The solo is very bright. I could use a warmer tone as well.

I also would really like to see expanded articulations for the strings in particular. The Appass strings came with a few
extra "effect" articulations, but nothing even close to what I could really use. I would like to see more like:

-behind the bridge as random in long, short and trem

-on the bridge as bowed

-gliss harmonics as random, together and trem

-long and short scratches

-more clusters choices

-wide vibrato as slow, med and fast

-fast and slow random pizz

-tail piece bowed effects

-super fast and short gliss and runs (more like rips) etc.

These kinds of articulations are used for a lot of film scoring (most commonly for thriller, horror, action films)
So far we've had to go outside of VI to personal lib or a few other commerical libs that offer up extended articulations of this nature.
I would like to see VI start to develop more of these kinds of articulations for each string group.

The same suggestion for the brass and some of the winds as well.
Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 03:38
by mplaster
Joined on Fri, Jan 12 2007, phoenix | az | usa, Posts 217

i  would like to second the idea of a Pedal Steel.

Posted on Mon, Jan 14 2008 04:59
by Revson
Joined on Sun, Mar 18 2007, Posts 42
I'd like suggest that three players is a better number than 2-player desks or 1-player benches. Three is the minimum for a genuine ensemble sound, and I'd rather be mixing ensemble sounds than trying to create them out of non-ensemble recordings.
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