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Ambient background silence samples
Last post Fri, Nov 18 2011 by jammusique, 29 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 01:57
by sasha
Joined on Sun, Mar 25 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 59

In some demos I have heard an added background ambiance sample, which Im thought sounded very convincing.

Where do those come from?

Is VSL going to produce it's own set of such samples? I'm sure thay'd blend with VSL orchestra even better then the once that are already available from other companies.


Thank you.

sasha

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 10:34
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

The problem there is that VSL record everything in their 'Silent Stage', a totally noise-free environment. (They tested it by having a helicopter hover low over the building - even that failed to register on the mics.) Still I'm sure some people would pay to have a recording of the background ambience of the Silent Stage, it would be a very restful listening experience.

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 15:49
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
Not that I disagree, but if we look at the other side of this aren't most professional recording studios based on the same principal of the silent stage? Seems people have no problem with that when we hear the results for the last 50 years or so. What I would like to have more is natural harmonics, ex. if a piano plays 3 notes there will be a whole series of harmonics, the same for violin or any instruments, with sampling we are dealing with individual notes with the rare exceptions of scale runs, arpeggios and maybe a few others. I think this factor would liven up the room so much more than hearing the room noise.
Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 17:29
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2370

Guy I believe that Bela Media supply a version of ambient stage noise.
Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 17:42
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

Hi Guy, hope all's well with you. 

Guy wrote:
What I would like to have more is natural harmonics, ex. if a piano plays 3 notes there will be a whole series of harmonics,
Not quite sure what you mean by harmonics? Are you referring to overtones within a single note?

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 17:46
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
Conquer wrote:

Hi Guy, hope all's well with you. 



Great, thanks for asking.

Guy wrote:
What I would like to have more is natural harmonics, ex. if a piano plays 3 notes there will be a whole series of harmonics,
Not quite sure what you mean by harmonics? Are you referring to overtones within a single note?



Yes. Well, more than a single note. When one plays a multitude of notes there is an orgie of overtones, and their interaction. I'm not talking about the overtones for each note but the multiplication factor when several notes are played.
Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 22:02
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 280

Here is one:

http://www.maartenspruijt.com/digitalorchestration.com/?p=34

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 23:53
by sasha
Joined on Sun, Mar 25 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 59
synthetic wrote:

Here is one:

http://www.maartenspruijt.com/digitalorchestration.com/?p=34

 

Thanks for the link, "synthetic". I'll give it a try.

Obviously a SILENT stage should not make any noise by itself. But
it could be filled with nusicians holding their instruments, breathing,
sweing their bodies as if they were playing .... All that, I think, should make some noise that would simulate the noise during the performance.

sasha 

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2008 23:58
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995
I was about to bounce a piece and I said ah what the hec, so I put in the silent stage audio. I guess it makes a bit of a difference. 25 years ago people would spend thousands of dollars to get rid of this noise, now we are ready to pay to have it IN!
Posted on Fri, Feb 15 2008 03:27
by ktnujynisis
Joined on Sun, Sep 16 2007, Posts 32
Posted on Fri, Feb 15 2008 04:37
by cKaz
Joined on Sat, Nov 06 2004, Montreal, Canada, Posts 54
Here is another one from Maarten Spruijt

http://www.maartenspruij...lorchestration.com/?p=34



Posted on Fri, Feb 15 2008 17:19
by cKaz
Joined on Sat, Nov 06 2004, Montreal, Canada, Posts 54
Sorry about the repeat, just saw it 2 messages above.
Posted on Sat, Feb 16 2008 02:07
by LazyPeon
Joined on Fri, Apr 13 2007, Germany, Berlin, Posts 85

Thx for the beladmedia-link. Only knew the Maarten Spruijt Stage free noise until now.

I totally love those noises. It's kind of "simulating the people behind the instruments".

Posted on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:47
by jammusique
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Paris, France, Posts 262

Hi, any current links to getting some "stage air" audio? Nonoe in this thread seem to work.

WW complete. MirX Teldex, Cubase, PC
Posted on Sun, Oct 30 2011 15:28
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

If you allow for a small ad for our own products here ... ;-)

Vienna MIR offers individual "RoomTones" for each of its Venues. They are original recordings from the natural noise-floor in each of the halls, for every singly microphone array. Their levels are adjustable, of course, and they will even decode properly to the chosen output format (stereo, surround ...). The upcoming MIR Pro will offer the same feature with enhanced options (dedicated inserts and outputs for the RoomTone).

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Nov 02 2011 23:27
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

The missing elements for realism are the noises that often cause re-takes in the studio environment. In otherwords the extraneous sounds the individual and ensemble players make performing the score. For a sampled library it is sensible to filter this out but in the real world all these sounds exist to some degree so would be expected to be present to some extent by the listener.

I found that a room tone can prevent the drop off to dead silence at the end on a piece but would not normally be heard until that point, whereas small sounds of breaths, bow movements floor creaks are the missing realism from a sampled orchestra.

Julian.

Posted on Thu, Nov 03 2011 09:41
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
julian wrote:

The missing elements for realism are the noises that often cause re-takes in the studio environment. In otherwords the extraneous sounds the individual and ensemble players make performing the score. For a sampled library it is sensible to filter this out but in the real world all these sounds exist to some degree so would be expected to be present to some extent by the listener.

I found that a room tone can prevent the drop off to dead silence at the end on a piece but would not normally be heard until that point, whereas small sounds of breaths, bow movements floor creaks are the missing realism from a sampled orchestra.

Julian.

 

I'm in two minds about this. Whilst on the one hand I agree with you, the other tells me that I've spent years telling players to be quiet, and have therefore become very sensitive to studio noise.

I think my feelings would be:

  1. Always use room noise (as Dietz suggested) to avoid digital silence.
  2. Never use extra extraneous noise for Media related music
  3. Try to use a tiny amount of studio noise for CD release.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Nov 06 2011 04:44
by Saxer
Joined on Sat, Apr 18 2009, Frankfurt Germany, Posts 115
there als is an 'orchestra ready to play waiting' noize sample in symphobia 2 (one of the last entries in the exf section and reachable by keyswitch).
Posted on Sun, Nov 06 2011 15:44
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1995

I think there is a false assumption here. I agree "some" room noise is important, but you could simply end up with a piece that has a bit of ambience but that doesn't sound any better. I think it's better to invest in the ambience of each instrument and naturally their expression. I've heard people put room noise and it didn't do a single thing for me, on the contrary it even gave a bad effect. I think you have to be very careful in not trying to compensate something else by room noise. And having noises of chairs and such is pretty ridiculous. The problem I see is that the ambience added is too unrelated to what's going on or doesn't seem to have any connection, this is why it doesn't really work, at least in my opinion. I'm not saying it shouldn't be added, but just a drop.

Posted on Sun, Nov 06 2011 16:02
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Guy Bacos wrote:

I think there is a false assumption here. I agree "some" room noise is important, but you could simply end up with a piece that has a bit of ambience but that doesn't sound any better. I think it's better to invest in the ambience of each instrument and naturally their expression. I've heard people put room noise and it didn't do a single thing for me, on the contrary it even gave a bad effect. I think you have to be very careful in not trying to compensate something else by room noise. And having noises of chairs and such is pretty ridiculous. The problem I see is that the ambience added is too unrelated to what's going on or doesn't seem to have any connection, this is why it doesn't really work, at least in my opinion.

 

Guy, I think that the room noise thing really depends on what sort of piece you are writing. If it is all bells and whistles, there is absolutely no point, because it would be at such a low level that you wouldn't hear it anyway. However, if there are moments of silence, having nothing is really distracting and cold, whereas a bit of room tone really helps. Of course if your reverb tails are so long that they cover up the gap totally, it is again a waste of effort.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
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