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bow direction change
Last post Sat, Feb 23 2008 by PolarBear, 10 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 12:01
by hose
Joined on Fri, Nov 09 2007, Posts 153

hi. I own, the Vienna SE standard, extended, & standard plus libraries. Can anyone tell me how to perform a phrase having a bow direction change on every note. I want the bow direction change to be noticable, especially when using a solo string instrument, and when playing the same note more than once. I heard this in an audio demo called Reverie - Bass & Piano by Giovanni Bottesini, in the solo strings section. I am well aware that those demos are made by the full Vienna libraries and unlike the SE, they contain a massive amount of articulations. I was just wondering if there is some way to do that with the SE, or perhaps the standard plus. thanks

Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 15:25
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

Actually players aim to not make bow directions audible at all in reality. With Solo Strings you get the bow changes in the sustain samplesif you hold the key long enough (try a espressivo patch for instance if that's contained in SE). The other way to make a bow change audible is to simply retrigger the sustain or use alternate samples (switiching between espr and sus e.g.).

With ensembles you will never get all players to change their bow at the same time in reality, unless you force them to by writing a new note, so the same technique as above described will apply.

All the best,

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 15:32
by LoveAurell
Joined on Wed, Jan 30 2008, Posts 1

 I'm not sure, but think he wants to make bow direction changes between the notes, not while playing long notes. Am I right, hose? I have the SE standard, but I haven't found any way to do this. I'm new to VSL though.

Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 15:45
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

In that case you simply have to retrigger the note as I already described, as there are no up- or down-bow samples in any VSL product, they decided the sonic difference is too little and really not audible with good players when they recorded.

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Fri, Feb 22 2008 16:04
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1788
hose wrote:

Can anyone tell me how to perform a phrase having a bow direction change on every note. I want the bow direction change to be noticable, especially when using a solo string instrument, and when playing the same note more than once. ...

 

Hello Hose

Normally you've two possibilities with stac-, portato short-, portato long- and (but I'm not quite sure) with sustain- articulations.

In case of the strings you can say "up-/down-bow". Whether it is really up and down or not, this is the secret of the silent stage.

Example:   

You only can get stac1 and stac2 by forcing a second note of the same articulation. You get the second possibility automatically with all repeated notes within a timeframe of 2-3s. It doesn´t
depend on whether you repeat the same note in that timeframe (G-G-G) or whether there is a different note inbetween (G-D-G).

If the
second "G" is triggered within the next 2-3 seconds, you will still
trigger a different recorded version of the same note, no matter if there were other notes played inbetween.

Remark:

This answer is combination of one of Paul (VSL) and one of me (13the October 07)


http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/16970/121736.aspx#121736

(You have to scroll up. I wasn't able to mange it that you end up just at the right place)  

All the best 

Beat Kaufmann

  

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 02:41
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

Can't you force VI to play the pattern into something like stac1 stac1 stac2 if the third note is within that 2 or 3 seconds?

PolarBear 

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 09:32
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1788

 

PolarBear wrote:

Can't you force VI to play the pattern into something like stac1 stac1 stac2 if the third note is within that 2 or 3 seconds?

PolarBear 

Hi PolarBear

- Turn the VI.

- Open the cover.

- Remove the mainboard.

- Now you will see a mini switch "stac1/stac2".

- Turn it from "auto" to "key-selected". Devil  ...

Unfortunately it isn't in our power to force that. Sad

We had (have) this advantage with the "good old ProEdition- and Horizon- Libraries". Smile

Nevertheless...

Have a nice weekend.Wink

Beat 

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 10:10
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9141

miniswitch

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 12:24
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Beat Kaufmann wrote:

 

PolarBear wrote:

Can't you force VI to play the pattern into something like stac1 stac1 stac2 if the third note is within that 2 or 3 seconds?

PolarBear 

Hi PolarBear

- Turn the VI.

- Open the cover.

- Remove the mainboard.

- Now you will see a mini switch "stac1/stac2".

- Turn it from "auto" to "key-selected". Devil  ...

Unfortunately it isn't in our power to force that. Sad

We had (have) this advantage with the "good old ProEdition- and Horizon- Libraries". Smile

Nevertheless...

Have a nice weekend.Wink

Beat 

Much as I really like the VI player, this is one of the failings. We also can't choose which of the repetition notes to use, which causes problems, as the editing is not uniform between all notes of the same pitch.



DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2008 15:42
by PolarBear
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Germany, Posts 1206

Nice to find out another advantage of my ancient sample library product... haha! One would think they'd not restrict this kind of things and allow to do some fancy matrix programming or whatelse for it to happen (I obviously just have seen the VI interface).

PolarBear 

PS: Come to think of it - perhaps it could be possible? With a hidden, inaudible volume 0 note being triggered in between which forces the pattern to go a step further... Evil, evil Devil

A zero can decuple an existing problem.
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