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  3. SPECIAL EDITION ON A MAC PRO?

  • SPECIAL EDITION ON A MAC PRO?

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    Hi, things have changed a bit since my last post. I am now planning to get Special Edition (maybe also Extended) and run it on one of the new Mac Pros using Digital Performer. The question is: (please choose one):

    A) Should I get, say, 8 GB of RAM in my Mac and just run SE in it? Would it suffice, or would I get in trouble? I do orchestral stuff, usually loading samples equivalent to a 75 piece orchestra.

    B) Or should I use a slave PC, with the ease of Ensemble 3 and its simple ethernet cable, just because running SE in the main computer would be too RAM and CPU stressful?

    C) Is the loading time for the orchestral template an important factor to add to the equation that should be enough to use a slave no matter what?

    Simple questions that I bet a lot of people have in mind...
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    I have a MacBook Pro that is about 1 year old, and has 2 gb ram and a 2.16 duo core processor. I have the standard library Special Edition, and while I would certainly love to have more ram, I have been able to make what I have work. The VSL learn and optimize function is awesome, and I use it constantly. Of course, more ram would speed up my workflow, but I wanted you to know that I have been able to make it work with only 2 gb of ram. The most I have done is about 21 audio instrument tracks in Logic Pro, and while it is not flawless and there are some pops and click and core audio overload messeges, I am making it work for me. So I would think 8 gb should be more than ample. Of course, I don't have any experience using more than 2.
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    @ColinThomson said:

    I have a MacBook Pro that is about 1 year old, and has 2 gb ram and a 2.16 duo core processor. I have the standard library Special Edition, and while I would certainly love to have more ram, I have been able to make what I have work. The VSL learn and optimize function is awesome, and I use it constantly. Of course, more ram would speed up my workflow, but I wanted you to know that I have been able to make it work with only 2 gb of ram. The most I have done is about 21 audio instrument tracks in Logic Pro, and while it is not flawless and there are some pops and click and core audio overload messeges, I am making it work for me. So I would think 8 gb sould be more than ample. Of course, I don't have any experience using more than 2.
     

    Thank for posting this Colin, that was i all i need to know to keep myself relaxed.. I ordered the Special Edition Standard Library yesterday an as i have almost the same computer as you (mine is a 2.2 Ghz (santa rosa) 2 GB RAM Macbook Pro, the last one before the last upgrade apple did, i bought mine in September 2007), reading your words was just great!! 21 audio instrument tracks in Logic Pro is and admirable quantity. Did you have to freeze the tracks? or you just used the optimize function?

    Greetings from Chile.

    Felipe. 
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    I haven't had to freeze tracks yet, but I think I might need to on a few in order to get a clean bounce. Playback is not too bad, but whenever I bounce it I get some notes dropped. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I thinking freezing a few should take care of this. And you only really need to do it when you are ready for a final bounce. Oh, and I just checked, and it is 19 tracks, not 21. Of course, I am sure you could get a lot more by just freezing a few. Oh, and by the way, the Special Edition seems like one of the best bang-for-buck products on the sample market. Congratulations, and have fun with it!
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     I've been searching the threads and still haven't found an answer to this one, which I'm sure is on a lot of people's minds.  How much RAM is needed to run the entire SE Plus Extended (all the samples) on a Mac Pro?  I'm considering availing of my VIP pricing to SE before time runs out, and I'd love to have all of the SE bundle loaded and ready to play on one computer, be it as a plug or standalone.  :-)

  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    the special edition needs about 4 GB RAM if you load every single patch available within the standard and extended library (what you harly would do except for stress testing)

    the limit of loaded sample data on a mac for an application (VI, VE) is currently about 3.2 GB of used memory (there are some workarounds to exceed that number though)

    considering your operating system and audio host will need some memory too 6 GB seem to be reasonable.

    i'd recommend to have always *double pairs* of RAM sticks on motherboards like the MacPro has one (paired dual channel) i.e. 4 x 1 GB + 4 x 512 MB, but of course the most clean configuration would be 8 x 1 GB

    the more memory a machine has the better OS X will behave regarding paging (= usage of virtual memory, more precisely not using virtual memory)

    hth, christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    Thanks for that info Christian!  That means a Mac pro with 8x2GB will be great for running SE.  I'm thinking multiple stand alones-->2408 ADAT out-->ADAT cable--->2408 ADAT in.  Heck, even a MacBook Pro isn't out of the question for a portable set up.  The reason I asked that is because I'm using Pro Edition everything on 6 Giga PCs, so I'm a bit spoiled in that I have lots and lots of articulations online all the time and ready to play (all the harp glisses loaded is great for trying out stuff quickly).  Of course I don't have the whole library loaded, but even the sample set in SE bundle seems just about what I need for most projects.  With 16 gigs there's even room for appassionata 1 and 2.  I can always load up the missing articulations in EXS24 or Kontakt.  Which leads to an OT question.....is there a place I can get the EXS24 format Pro Edition?  Or am I better off just converting my Pro Ed Giga to EXS24 with CDXtract or ChickenSys?   Thanks again for the useful info :-)

    Gerard 
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    Thank you guys for all your answers, I'm glad I raised the question. I didn't know that there was a limit of 3.2GB, I thought that 64bit systems had changed that, apparently not?. As for the loading time of samples, which was part C) of my original question...any thoughts?
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    @davi said:

    Thank you guys for all your answers, I'm glad I raised the question. I didn't know that there was a limit of 3.2GB, I thought that 64bit systems had changed that, apparently not?. As for the loading time of samples, which was part C) of my original question...any thoughts?

    64bit can only change the amount of RAM available when you have a 64bit application. These are not available for OSX yet.
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    Oh I see... Let's wait for VSL to be 64 bit then...

    Has anybody calculated the average time to load all samples for a typical orchestra template?
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    @davi said:

    Oh I see... Let's wait for VSL to be 64 bit then...

    Has anybody calculated the average time to load all samples for a typical orchestra template?

    I'm afraid that this is an impossible question, because none of us have the same views on what a template should be.

    If it is of any help, my template of 7.5GB takes around 10-15 minutes,depending on which studio. The faster time is for the studio with the 64bit machine, which is less old.....!

    DG
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    Hi! I'm a new user of VI. Although I pimped my mac book to 4 GB Ram and 500 GB hard drive before getting the Special Edition of VI I realize that I might be underneath the recommended threshold as system requirements are concerned. My Ram quickly fills up and I have difficulty running plug-ins (Altiverb) in real time. Can you guys give me an idea of where a breaking point in price efficiancy lies? Does one need a 8-core Mac Pro for this or will an iMac suffice. I have been using Mac for years and a would be reluctant to go back to windows, although I realize that one can away alot cheaper on the hard ware with windows compatible components. Any ideas? Thanks, Johan
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    welcome johan,

    the full sample content of the special edition (everything available loaded) needs about 3.8 GB memory so my recommendation would be to load rather matrices than complete presets.

    if your CPU is not strong enough try to reduce the number of altiverb instances or apply fewer to submixes instead of many to single tracks - PPC or intel and how much GHz?

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    Hallo Christian! Grüsse nach Wien! I have an Intel MacBook 2 Ghz. The Altiverb problem is not so important. Although it'a a bit of a drag to have to make a complete mixdown everytime I want to hear one change in the setting. Cheers, Johan
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    My experience is to stay away from Digital Performer. I have a new Mac Pro and I ended up using Cubase 5. I love both, but Logic 9 has stability issues, now with Snow on everything. DP and MOTU are left in the dirt while Logic, Cubase are in the Snow playing already. I had so many panic attacks with DP and also DP will not see a USB MIDI device without making a bridge. Also you cant save a Vienna Template in MOTU DP BIG BIG problem. As you will set up all your loaded instruments and VST tracks with midi etc, then save as template then when you reload the bug in MOTU blocks Vienna midi assignments to VST just a port and no patches. Also with Nicks EastWest etc. I think if you plan to compose music and orchestrate with a great library like Vienna, then you do not need a software like MOTU DP where you tape aspirin all over it and the Mac, and the non-existant Tech support as it will give you so many headaches not to mention all the panic attacks and mystery "Unexpected error's" which leave hours of music lost as DP has no auto save as logic and Cubase. I was a life long fan of DP, but until they update there software, stay away 100% as you go to their website and there AUdio/MIDI and Ethno instruments do not even work any more with Snow. You will think it is Vienna, but Vienna is solid as a rock!!! I learned the hard way as DP blamed everyone but DP is so outdated that it does not handle the Mac PRo Nahelems 2009 jan and later without frustrating the user so much that he hates music. So then for a successful music experience try Cubase or Logic 8. I started with Appasionatta Strings, and Special edition etc. Then you will want more like a drug attic! They know how to push you with perfection. It sounds so dam real with Vienna, that you got to have more.. but it will cost you and worth every dollar you save and spend. I own all the Libraries all of EastWest, over 79k worth and nothing touches vienna for simplicity and the real sound. Pick up a breath controller from Yamaha, pick up a Kurzweil PC3X and then assign the crossfade (in Vienna) in perform to controller #2. Then just blow on the mouth piece while you play a horn, woodwind and strings and Holy S**&$ it is so scary I sold more stock last night to get the entire Percussion and Brass now with the EXPANDED bonus this month!. I worked with Disney cartoon music for 9 years, and sat in front of every kind of Orchestra from Warner, to Star Trek, to Columbo, to Tiny Toons, to Batman. Vienna will give you that orchestra sound and even the best will not know the difference. I found the Breath controller for $39 on ebay from Yamaha separates the men from the boys! Not a EWI but a breath controller. Kind Regards, Barend Bendorf PhD
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    @Bross said:

    My experience is to stay away from Digital Performer. I have a new Mac Pro and I ended up using Cubase 5. I love both, but Logic 9 has stability issues, now with Snow on everything. DP and MOTU are left in the dirt while Logic, Cubase are in the Snow playing already. I had so many panic attacks with DP and also DP will not see a USB MIDI device without making a bridge. Also you cant save a Vienna Template in MOTU DP BIG BIG problem. As you will set up all your loaded instruments and VST tracks with midi etc, then save as template then when you reload the bug in MOTU blocks Vienna midi assignments to VST just a port and no patches. Also with Nicks EastWest etc. I think if you plan to compose music and orchestrate with a great library like Vienna, then you do not need a software like MOTU DP where you tape aspirin all over it and the Mac, and the non-existant Tech support as it will give you so many headaches not to mention all the panic attacks and mystery "Unexpected error's" which leave hours of music lost as DP has no auto save as logic and Cubase. I was a life long fan of DP, but until they update there software, stay away 100% as you go to their website and there AUdio/MIDI and Ethno instruments do not even work any more with Snow. You will think it is Vienna, but Vienna is solid as a rock!!! I learned the hard way as DP blamed everyone but DP is so outdated that it does not handle the Mac PRo Nahelems 2009 jan and later without frustrating the user so much that he hates music. So then for a successful music experience try Cubase or Logic 8. I started with Appasionatta Strings, and Special edition etc. Then you will want more like a drug attic! They know how to push you with perfection. It sounds so dam real with Vienna, that you got to have more.. but it will cost you and worth every dollar you save and spend. I own all the Libraries all of EastWest, over 79k worth and nothing touches vienna for simplicity and the real sound. Pick up a breath controller from Yamaha, pick up a Kurzweil PC3X and then assign the crossfade (in Vienna) in perform to controller #2. Then just blow on the mouth piece while you play a horn, woodwind and strings and Holy S**&$ it is so scary I sold more stock last night to get the entire Percussion and Brass now with the EXPANDED bonus this month!. I worked with Disney cartoon music for 9 years, and sat in front of every kind of Orchestra from Warner, to Star Trek, to Columbo, to Tiny Toons, to Batman. Vienna will give you that orchestra sound and even the best will not know the difference. I found the Breath controller for $39 on ebay from Yamaha separates the men from the boys! Not a EWI but a breath controller. Kind Regards, Barend Bendorf PhD

    Have i undestand right? You work now with snow leopard and cubase 5 and everythng works fine? 

    I plan to buy me a new macbookpro with 500 GB HD 3,06 duo core and 8 GB Ram. Is it possibel to run cubase 5 in the 64 bit version on leopard snow?

    What is also great when vienna esemble pro is release. That thing is also an 64 bit application😉
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    @Planet said:

    I plan to buy me a new macbookpro with 500 GB HD 3,06 duo core and 8 GB Ram. Is it possibel to run cubase 5 in the 64 bit version on leopard snow?

     

    There is no 64bit version of Cubase for OSX.

    DG
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    @DG said:

    There is no 64bit version of Cubase for OSX.

    DG

    Since i´ve see that vienna esemble pro is 64 bit , it doesnt matter when there is a 64bit version for mac😉 . But with leopard snow i can use vienna exembple pro in 64 bit right?😊
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    @DG said:

    There is no 64bit version of Cubase for OSX.

    DG

    Since i´ve see that vienna esemble pro is 64 bit , it doesnt matter when there is a 64bit version for mac😉 . But with leopard snow i can use vienna exembple pro in 64 bit right?😊

     

     You can use VE Pro in Leopard. It doesn't have to be SL.

    I would imagine that there is a 64bit version of Cubase in the works, but my suggestion would be to do what the Windows users have been doing for years; use the 32bit version, until all plugs are 64bit.

    DG
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    What do you mean with that it doesn´t have to ve sl?

    so i can run vienna esemble with 64 bit. If that is possible there is no haste for cubase, cause the orchester will be load into vienna esemble pro:)