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Vienna Server/VE3 maximum RAM load?
Last post Fri, May 16 2008 by cm, 13 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 16:07
by jasongravesmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 11 2007, Posts 78
How much RAM/VE3 instances are folks able to load into the Vienna Ensemble Service? Right now mine quits after 2.75 gigs within three instances of VE3, even though I have another 8-10 gigs of free RAM still available. I know the VSL guys have reported much better results. Is there a way around this?

Jason
Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 16:11
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
jasongravesmusic wrote:
How much RAM/VE3 instances are folks able to load into the Vienna Ensemble Service? Right now mine quits after 2.75 gigs within three instances of VE3, even though I have another 8-10 gigs of free RAM still available. I know the VSL guys have reported much better results. Is there a way around this? Jason

It depends on your OS. What OS are you using?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 16:42
by jasongravesmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 11 2007, Posts 78
Mac OS 10.5.2
Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 16:43
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
jasongravesmusic wrote:
Mac OS 10.5.2

That's your answer then. There are no 64bit versions of VE for OSX yet, hence the RAM limit.


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 16:47
by jasongravesmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 11 2007, Posts 78
So can I somehow run multiple instances of the Server to access more RAM? As it stands now I was better off, performance-wise, running individual instances of VE2 on my host machine. What is VSL referring to about making duplicate copies in the manual for Mac folks (pg 9)? Is that for standalone on the host computer or for the slave?

Thanks!

Jason
Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 16:58
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
jasongravesmusic wrote:
So can I somehow run multiple instances of the Server to access more RAM? As it stands now I was better off, performance-wise, running individual instances of VE2 on my host machine. What is VSL referring to about making duplicate copies in the manual for Mac folks (pg 9)? Is that for standalone on the host computer or for the slave? Thanks! Jason

I'm afraid that you'll have to wait for one of the Mac users on this forum to help you further, as I use Windows XP.


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2008 17:02
by jasongravesmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 11 2007, Posts 78
Thanks, man. I'm also talking to Ilio tech support and will post my results.
Posted on Thu, May 15 2008 22:35
by fitzpatton_14145
Joined on Sat, May 14 2005, New York, Posts 10

I have exactly the same problem as you do. I've worked through this very methodically and the fact remains exactly as you state it:

VE3 when run as a network application as a plug-in within a DAW can only address a total of 3 gigs of samples single computer. 

Multiple instances within the networked version do not increase the amount of RAM you can address on a single machine. 

Multiple instances of VE2, when run as a standalone, can address more RAM on a single computer than VE3 as a networked plugin.

These are the facts. I don't know if this is a 32bit OS issue. Comments, anyone?

VE3, to be successful, will need to address more RAM, or the licensing approach must be adjusted to accomodate the need to spread a library over mulotiple slave computers. We cannot buy multiple full licenses for every collection to use them in a networked setup. The solo strings library, for example, seems a perfect candidate for the potential of VE3. But with the restriction that the license cannot be shared across the two machines, and each machine cannot address more than 3 gigs of samples, this dream evaporates. It was a beautiful dream, I might add, and it's one that only the amazing VSL could ever have given us.

The best solution available to Mac Users right now is a Mac Pro with 16 or more gigs of RAM running multiple instances of VE2. I cannot find my way past these conclusions.

Thoughts anyone?

Fitz 

Fitz
Posted on Thu, May 15 2008 22:44
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Fitz, the best solution for using the plugin version of VE3is XP64 or Vista64, no matter what your computer. When VE3 is 64bit on OSX, then that will be an equally good solution.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Thu, May 15 2008 22:56
by fitzpatton_14145
Joined on Sat, May 14 2005, New York, Posts 10
OK DG, then here's a question.

My Daw is a Mac (Digital Performer).

Can VE3 running on my Mac in OSX connect to VE3 server slave Mac Pro running Vista?

Fitz
Fitz
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 02:17
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

Fitz:

According to the folks at VSL you can run your DAW on OSX on one machine and VE3 on any other machine (including a Mac Pro) running XP Pro 64 or Vista 64. As DG says, when there is a 64-bit OSX compatible version of VE 3, then you will be able to do the same thing with a MacPro running Leopard.

One of the features of VE3 is, obviously, that the slave computer does not need to have an audio or MIDI interface - - since it receives MIDI from and  sends audio back to the DAW via ethernet. It seems likely that the cost of Vista 64 will be less than that of a MIDI and an audio interface - - which would be necessary if you were to run multiple instances of VE2 on the slave under OSX. Another limitation of the multiple VE2 scheme is that, according to the folks at VSL, you can run only three VE2 standalones - - each with about 2.5GB of samples on a MacPro running OSX.  This still leaves you with a lot of unused RAM if you have 16GB or more.

There is one additional complication: OSX can read disks formatted for Windows but Windows cannot read disks formatted for OSX. This means that, if your sample libraries are on Mac formatted drives, to use VE3 under Vista 64 or XP Pro 64, you will have to copy the libraries to a Windows formatted drive or drives or reformat your current library drives as Windows drives and reinstall the samples. The good news is that, according to CM, a MacPro running OSX can stream samples from Windows formatted drives - - so when an OSX compatible 64-bit version of VE3 is released, you will not, theoretically, be compelled to repeat this process in reverse.

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 08:28
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
fitzpatton_14145 wrote:
OK DG, then here's a question. My Daw is a Mac (Digital Performer). Can VE3 running on my Mac in OSX connect to VE3 server slave Mac Pro running Vista? Fitz

I agree with the above post. It seems the simplest solution for you, and if you want to run in Leopard when VE is 64bit on OSX, then you have the choice. It will certainly be interesting to compare which OS is best for sample streaming, and whether the potential crackle/pop situation, on first playing of your piece, that sometimes appears on OSX, is eliminated when using VE3.


One further thought. I've just bought a few copies of XP64, which were relatively cheap (OEM), as I bought some hard drives at the same time. I believe that as the current wisdom is not to sell your first born in order to buy RAM and hard drives from Apple, you might be able to get a very good deal on either XP64 or Vista.


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 22:39
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9094

stevesong wrote:
according to CM, a MacPro running OSX can stream samples from Windows formatted drives

the most important thing is: as performant as from an HFS+ formatted drive ....

the drawback is: OS X can not write to NTFS formatted drives (though there are free tools available to make that work too)

whenever i need to read HFS+ formatted drives on windows systems i use MacDrive, but for this we have to wait for a 64bit and VISTA compatible version

christian

 

ps: for the newer mac users: HFS+ is a filesystem which apple now calls *mac-formatted* and for storing sample data one should always choose *not journaled*

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
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