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Breath control of VI x fades
Last post Fri, May 16 2008 by serialmusique, 8 replies.
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Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 06:42
by serialmusique
Joined on Thu, Jun 08 2006, Santa Monica California, Posts 22
I recently bought a breath controller in order to control velocity x fades for VI strings.
However, the velocity fades operate with the mod wheel. Does anyone know how to transform breath control data into mod wheel control data in Logic so I can acomplish this? I read something brief about it in another post which suggested that I think it has to do with the transform function in the environment. But to be honest, I can't really figure this out from the manual or the post.
Any help would be great!!!
Thanks...
Matthew

Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 14:24
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 You can asside velocity Xfades to whatever controller you'd like. For a list of controllers and their characteristics see:

http://improv.sapp.org/d...rollers/controllers.html

Here you learn that breath is both controller 2 (coarse) and 34 (fine), that MIDI Expression is both CC 11 (coarse) and CC 43 (fine) etc. You don't need a transformer since Logic can record or write any kind of MIDI data. You can record CC data either while you are playing or afterwards. To do it afterwards, the easist method I've found is to use Logic's Capture function - - you can put a Capture button on the Transport bar by right clicking (or control clicking the Transport bar - - a menu will appear and one of the choices is "Customize Transport Bar." Choose this. A dialog box appears. You will find "Capture Recording" as the last item on the leftmost column. Check this box. Click OK. Now you will see a new button to the right of the Record Button. After setting up VI for the appropriate controller and the control device to send the appropriate CC data, play the recording and use the control device - - you will hear its effect. If you like what you've heard, press the capture button (Before moving the Playhead cursor - - if you move the playhead cursor before pressing the Capture button, you will lose the data.) If you listen and don't like what you've recorded at all, just Undo it and try again, if you like most of it, but feel it nees some tweaking you can see and edit it in the Piano Roll Window by chosing Hyperdraw under the view menu and choosing the Controller you want to edit. Choose "Other" if you are using a controller other than those listed and tis will produce a dialog box enabling you to chose whichever controller you wish. 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 16:54
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec City, Quebec, Canada, Posts 282
Hi Stephen, I would like to use a breath controller tool. So could you tell what I need exactly. I think that Yamaha is the leader about this? Also, do DP4.6 is as flexible as Logic? Thanks.... Best.... Alain
Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.9.5

Dorico, Notion5, DP 8, Finale 2012,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 18:34
by serialmusique
Joined on Thu, Jun 08 2006, Santa Monica California, Posts 22
Hi Steve,

Thank for so much great information. That's really helpful!
At the moment I seem to stuck before I even get to that point, though.
I've plugged in my MIDI solutions breath controller and have attached my BC3 to that.
However, when I start Logic it appears that breath the controller is linked to the volume fader
of my audio instrument track! it's just flutters there around -60Db so I know it's linked some how.
I try to assign it to velocity in VI on the perform tab but it is unresponsive. What the heck?!
Any ideas would be great!
Thanks again
Matthew
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 20:17
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

Serialmusique: 

Have you programmed your MIDI Solutions box so that it will send the appropriate controller? To do this requires sending MIDI System Exclusive  messages via a sequencer as described in the users guide. According to what they say on their website, you can contact them by writing to and getting more detailed instructions. I don't have a breath controller, but I do have an old Kurzweil K2600 which has a breath controller input and can define its effect in terms of channel, response and CC number. 

Alain:

What you need besides the Yamaha BC3 Breath Controller is a way of connecting it to your system. If you have a MIDI keybaord controller with an input for a breath controller you are in luck. Otherwise, it would seem that the only other solution is the MIDI Solutions box - - with its rather old fashioned user interface involving sending MIDI System Exlusive messages as described above. Check out their website where you can download the manual: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodbth.htm 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 21:21
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec City, Quebec, Canada, Posts 282
Stephen, Thanks a lot for details. Cheer Alain
Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.9.5

Dorico, Notion5, DP 8, Finale 2012,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 22:08
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 Alain:

I forgot to answer your question regarding DP vs. Logic. the truth is I don't know. Originally I was a DP user, but then got Logic because I could run the Horizon solo string library with EXS 24 - - which was a great help as I already had a Gigastudio machine maxed out with this library, so that with a side licence for EXS, I could get the large number of articulations I needed as I was composing a string quartet (using 64 MIDI channels for all the necessary articulations. (Untangling the MIDI file was a lot of fun!!!!)  Eventually this setup was replaced  by the VI Solo String Libarary (only 4 MIDI channels necessary - - so transferring the MIDI file to Logic was easy), but, by this point, I had become more adept with Logic than I ever had been with DP and so have continued to use it. However, when I want to improvise and look at the results as notation, I still use DP as its notation algorithm is vastly superior to Logic's. If I've done an improv in Logic and want to look at a notational approximation, I export a MIDI file from Logic and open it in DP. 

What particularly interests me is the upcoming new version of DP, DP 6 that was announced and shown at NAMM some months ago. What makes DP 6 intriguing is that it, reportedly, has a pre-rendering-during-playback feature for virtual instruments - - which, it is claimed, allows for glitch free playback of  more virtual instruments than would otherwise be possible and eliminates the need to freeze tracks. In other words, if I understand correctly, what you will hear on playback is an audio file which has been pre-rendered offline on the fly. Sounds like a great idea - - will wait and see. If this works well, Apple will, no doubt, be compelled to offer a similar feature in a future version of Logic.

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Fri, May 16 2008 23:01
by serialmusique
Joined on Thu, Jun 08 2006, Santa Monica California, Posts 22

 Steve, Thanks for the message.  The MIDI solutions box is what I have.  I emailed them for help with programming it because it seems pretty complicated with sending sysEx messages and all.  

Thanks Again,

Matthew 

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