Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
legato Appassionata basses
Last post Sat, Sep 01 2012 by Casiquire, 48 replies.
Options
Go to last post
3 Pages123>
Posted on Tue, Jun 24 2008 16:52
by stevetrumpet
Joined on Thu, Jan 24 2008, United Kingdom, Posts 178

Am I missing something or is there no legato performance patch in the Appassionata Basses. Having had a look at the Sample content for Orch Strings II there appears to be said patch there (I do not own this set) - but I can't find it in Appassionata, either in my VE or on the website description.

Why would there be no such patch in Appassionata ??? And if it does not exist is this a future update? 

Steve

Posted on Tue, Jun 24 2008 17:23
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508

VSL regarded the Bass as a bonus and did not deem it necessary to sample the legato.

I miss it too.
Posted on Wed, Jun 25 2008 01:29
by alexdavis
Joined on Sat, May 26 2007, Posts 46

I don't understand why they regard that as a bonus? It's not considered "extra" to have basses in an orchestra, is it?

Not that my computer has any memory left to load legato App basses anyway Wink

-Alex 

Posted on Wed, Jun 25 2008 20:02
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508

I assume their reasoning is either that the sound difference between 10 Basses and 6 Basses was not worth sampling.

Posted on Thu, Jun 26 2008 11:16
by stevetrumpet
Joined on Thu, Jan 24 2008, United Kingdom, Posts 178

Can't believe that's the case  - lots of difference between 6 and 10 basses!

Anyway if that IS the case then why not just include the Orch basses with the Appass set so that we can have the full articulations, especially legato (which I find I use more than most other atrics with most instruments)?

Can anyone at VSL answer this?

Thanks guys

Steve

   

Posted on Thu, Jun 26 2008 11:23
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508

Could also be the assumption that basses aren't used "appasionata" style....

This issue has surfaced before, and I beleive the official answer was one of the two possibilities I just gave.

Posted on Thu, Jun 26 2008 13:27
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

I can't shed any light on the above questions, except to say that I've never once using the legato Double bass in any collection, so I don't miss the lack of it with the Appassionata Collection.


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Thu, Jun 26 2008 16:19
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2370


You don't really need legato Basses - you wouldn't use them that much anyway. DG is correct and it's no surprise that he doesn't use legato basses that much. I don't either. Basses are generally not used in the same way as the other V/V/C's.


Watch the way bass players in an orchestra play - very little in the way of legato - at least in the way it's implied here.
Posted on Fri, Apr 17 2009 22:36
by JT3_Jon
Joined on Fri, Jun 04 2004, Palmdale CA (1 hour north of LA), Posts 468

I disagree 100% that you "wouldn't use legato basses that much." Basses traditionally double the cellos 8vb, no? Would you say you dont need legato cello's? I could understand if you are thinking legato bass melodies as these dont happen very often, but legato doesn't mean "melody," it means smooth transitions between notes. I was planning on using legato basses for this smooth 16th note underline and SCREAMED when they were not available. Its bad enough they dont have any performance spiccato patches and I have to use chamber strings to create this basic sound, but the lack of legato is an outrage!! I really hope they fix this mistake in an update, but since VSL doesn't think they made a mistake, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Very disappointed in appassionata basses. They are half baked and need to go back in the oven! 

Epic Prog rock music using VSL samples - http://www.aeonsatori.com

System specs: Mac Pro 5,1 3.33GHz 12 core 48GB RAM
OS 10.11.6 Cubase 8.5 Vienna Ensemble Pro 6.0.27022(64-bit)

PC: Core i7-2600 32GB Ram, Windows 8, Vienna Ensemble Pro 6.0.17011(64-bit)
Posted on Fri, Apr 17 2009 22:50
by Tripit
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Hollywood, Ca., Posts 350

I do use legato basses on many occasions. I've had to to use the reg basses in those situations. There may not be a big demand for them, but certainly, it should have been included. I don't think any of the standard offer of articulations should be left out in any section. 

Posted on Fri, Apr 17 2009 22:53
by dpcon
Joined on Sat, Oct 12 2002, Los Angeles, Posts 1646

I think Paul and DG have it exactly right.

Dave Connor
Posted on Sat, Apr 18 2009 17:57
by ozoufonoun_29353
Joined on Sun, Jul 22 2007, Posts 107
PaulR wrote:
You don't really need legato Basses - you wouldn't use them that much anyway. DG is correct and it's no surprise that he doesn't use legato basses that much. I don't either. Basses are generally not used in the same way as the other V/V/C's.

That's just not true.  Now, I will agree that most writing that takes place for film scores and game scores does not make heavy use of legato playing in the Bass section, but nonetheless it is a huge part of the bass players arsenal of playing techniques.  Here are two very famous examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLADRH9Kb0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PPAs3vHM3g

omidzoufonoun.com
Posted on Sat, Apr 18 2009 18:27
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Neither of your examples are in the least bit "Appassionata". Nobody is saying that basses can't play legato. It's just that you wouldn't be able to tell whether they were or not most of the time. There are specific examples where it could be useful, but as soon as you put the cellos an octave above, then these differences are hardly audible, even if you listen for them.


DG


Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Apr 18 2009 20:11
by dpcon
Joined on Sat, Oct 12 2002, Los Angeles, Posts 1646

Once again DG has it exactly right: it's not really audible in the basses. That's one of the first things I checked with the Appass Basses. I have the orch basses and basically don't use the legato patch in favor of the larger Appass basses..

Dave Connor
Posted on Sun, Apr 19 2009 05:15
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508

 But would you use App Legato Basses instead of orch Legato Basses. I'm thinking yes... Having that larger sound being played legato would be nice at any rate, even if it isn't used all the time. I'm guessing most of us would use them more often than some of the more uncommon WW's.

Posted on Sun, Apr 19 2009 06:14
by dpcon
Joined on Sat, Oct 12 2002, Los Angeles, Posts 1646

Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.

Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.

Dave Connor
Posted on Sun, Apr 19 2009 08:50
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
dpcon wrote:

Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.

Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.

 

I certainly agree about the "ton of articulations". Currently I use App as a kind of ambient mike sample, because there just aren't enough articulations for anything other than big tunes. I really miss a short staccato.


Having said that, many of the Ww and Brass instruments could do with shorter staccatos, so I think that VSL is just being lazy and should get off their collective butts and give us more. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...... Crying


DG


Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 20 2009 03:32
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2675

This is marketing !!!

if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II

Best

Cyril

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Apr 20 2009 07:42
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Cyril wrote:

This is marketing !!!

if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II

Best

Cyril

 

Not at all. They have very different sounds.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 20 2009 08:28
by Christian Marcussen
Joined on Mon, Nov 10 2003, Posts 1508

 True... But I think it's safe to assume that if App. Strings were as deeply samples as the Orch strings, that they would take pretty much all the sales (which may already be the case). I guess that App string collection sells better as a single collection than the orch strings 1+2.

3 Pages123>
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.