legato Appassionata basses

[stevetrumpet]

Am I missing something or is there no legato performance patch in the Appassionata Basses. Having had a look at the Sample content for Orch Strings II there appears to be said patch there (I do not own this set) - but I can't find it in Appassionata, either in my VE or on the website description.

Why would there be no such patch in Appassionata ??? And if it does not exist is this a future update? 

Steve

[Christian Marcussen]

VSL regarded the Bass as a bonus and did not deem it necessary to sample the legato.

I miss it too.

[alexdavis]

I don't understand why they regard that as a bonus? It's not considered "extra" to have basses in an orchestra, is it?

Not that my computer has any memory left to load legato App basses anyway [;)]

-Alex 

[Christian Marcussen]

I assume their reasoning is either that the sound difference between 10 Basses and 6 Basses was not worth sampling.

[stevetrumpet]

Can't believe that's the case  - lots of difference between 6 and 10 basses!

Anyway if that IS the case then why not just include the Orch basses with the Appass set so that we can have the full articulations, especially legato (which I find I use more than most other atrics with most instruments)?

Can anyone at VSL answer this?

Thanks guys

Steve

   

[Christian Marcussen]

Could also be the assumption that basses aren't used "appasionata" style....

This issue has surfaced before, and I beleive the official answer was one of the two possibilities I just gave.

[DG]

I can't shed any light on the above questions, except to say that I've never once using the legato Double bass in any collection, so I don't miss the lack of it with the Appassionata Collection.

DG

[PaulR]

You don't really need legato Basses - you wouldn't use them that much anyway. DG is correct and it's no surprise that he doesn't use legato basses that much. I don't either. Basses are generally not used in the same way as the other V/V/C's.

Watch the way bass players in an orchestra play - very little in the way of legato - at least in the way it's implied here.

[JT3_Jon]

I disagree 100% that you "wouldn't use legato basses that much." Basses traditionally double the cellos 8vb, no? Would you say you dont need legato cello's? I could understand if you are thinking legato bass melodies as these dont happen very often, but legato doesn't mean "melody," it means smooth transitions between notes. I was planning on using legato basses for this smooth 16th note underline and SCREAMED when they were not available. Its bad enough they dont have any performance spiccato patches and I have to use chamber strings to create this basic sound, but the lack of legato is an outrage!! I really hope they fix this mistake in an update, but since VSL doesn't think they made a mistake, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Very disappointed in appassionata basses. They are half baked and need to go back in the oven! 

[Tripit]

I do use legato basses on many occasions. I've had to to use the reg basses in those situations. There may not be a big demand for them, but certainly, it should have been included. I don't think any of the standard offer of articulations should be left out in any section. 

[dpcon]

I think Paul and DG have it exactly right.

[ozoufonoun_29353]

[quote=PaulR]You don't really need legato Basses - you wouldn't use them that much anyway. DG is correct and it's no surprise that he doesn't use legato basses that much. I don't either. Basses are generally not used in the same way as the other V/V/C's.

That's just not true.  Now, I will agree that most writing that takes place for film scores and game scores does not make heavy use of legato playing in the Bass section, but nonetheless it is a huge part of the bass players arsenal of playing techniques.  Here are two very famous examples:

[DG]

Neither of your examples are in the least bit "Appassionata". Nobody is saying that basses can't play legato. It's just that you wouldn't be able to tell whether they were or not most of the time. There are specific examples where it could be useful, but as soon as you put the cellos an octave above, then these differences are hardly audible, even if you listen for them.

DG

[dpcon]

Once again DG has it exactly right: it's not really audible in the basses. That's one of the first things I checked with the Appass Basses. I have the orch basses and basically don't use the legato patch in favor of the larger Appass basses..

[Christian Marcussen]

 But would you use App Legato Basses instead of orch Legato Basses. I'm thinking yes... Having that larger sound being played legato would be nice at any rate, even if it isn't used all the time. I'm guessing most of us would use them more often than some of the more uncommon WW's.

[dpcon]

Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.

Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.

[DG]

@dpcon said:

Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.

Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.

 

I certainly agree about the "ton of articulations". Currently I use App as a kind of ambient mike sample, because there just aren't enough articulations for anything other than big tunes. I really miss a short staccato.

Having said that, many of the Ww and Brass instruments could do with shorter staccatos, so I think that VSL is just being lazy and should get off their collective butts and give us more. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...... [:'(]

DG

[Cyril Blanc]

This is marketing !!!

if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II

Best

Cyril

[DG]

@Cyril said:

This is marketing !!!

if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II

Best

Cyril

 

Not at all. They have very different sounds.

DG

[Christian Marcussen]

 True... But I think it's safe to assume that if App. Strings were as deeply samples as the Orch strings, that they would take pretty much all the sales (which may already be the case). I guess that App string collection sells better as a single collection than the orch strings 1+2.