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Key Switching Articulations in Logic, smartest way?
Last post Sun, Oct 19 2014 by A.G, 27 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Jul 23 2008 21:46
by Emperor
Joined on Tue, Jul 10 2007, Posts 64
I used to draw notes by mouse on the Piano roll to switch between articulations in VSL instruments. However, doing it this way is very annoying.
It would be great if one of Logic/VSL experts give us some tips.
Posted on Thu, Jul 24 2008 07:52
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

Hi Emperor. Why not play the keyswitches in live when you record the part?

Posted on Thu, Jul 24 2008 08:39
by Emperor
Joined on Tue, Jul 10 2007, Posts 64

Thanks for the reply. It is nearly impossible to play key switchs for fast passages. May be step recording will do the job.

Posted on Thu, Jul 24 2008 09:13
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

I don't use Logic, but hopefully my workflow will help you anyway. For fast passages, I play the passage live, to get the right feeling. Then I correct and wrong notes or fluffs. then I reduce the tempo to something manageable and play the passage again, but only doing the keyswitches.



DG
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Posted on Fri, Jul 25 2008 01:54
by dolon
Joined on Sat, Jun 07 2008, Posts 14
Hi,

A related technique I've been playing with recently is the notion of abandoning keyswitches in most cases - and replacing them with 3 cells loaded with different articulations,matched to the pitch wheel, with your most commonly used articulation set to the middle position. i.e. cell 2. Whilst an obvious limitation with this is that you only have access to 3 different articulations, it does enable the benefit of quickly recording an articulation change by flicking up or down on the pitch wheel, or holding for as long as you want that cell to be active.

For example you could have Vlns 1 Detache set to Cell 1, Vlns 1 Legato to Cell 2 and Vlns Staccato to Cell 3. (Then perhaps map mod wheel to velocity crossfade and you have a more vibrant 'instrument' alive under your fingers.)

This can be very useful and I've found it encourages me to experiment in creating more realistic passages on a wide variety of instruments.
Posted on Fri, Jul 25 2008 08:35
by mosso
Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005, London, England, Posts 376

I use the same method as DG, but I am using Logic. It works well for me.

Martin

Martin Thornton
<a href="http://www.mosso.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.mosso.co.uk</a>
Posted on Sun, Jul 27 2008 23:18
by jammusique
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Paris, France, Posts 258
You might try adding them in the event list, just before the note that it affects.
WW complete. MirX Teldex, Cubase, PC
Posted on Mon, Jul 28 2008 08:20
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

I've found the easiest way to do that is to play an initial keyswitch when you record the sequence - this will appear at the top of the event list. You can then copy and paste it in other places in the list (of course you'll have to edit the pitch of each copy to the desired keyswitch note).

Posted on Mon, Jul 28 2008 15:31
by Emperor
Joined on Tue, Jul 10 2007, Posts 64
I developed my method of key switching by using the step record function. First, I record the entire track using the sustain patch, then I activate the step record and start play the needed key switch step by step. I found this method is quite convenient.
Posted on Mon, Jul 28 2008 16:47
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

Sounds good - when using step record for both, isn't there a danger that the keyswitch and melodic note will occur at exactly the same time?

Posted on Mon, Jul 28 2008 17:27
by seanmccoy
Joined on Sat, Feb 28 2004, Central Point, OR, Posts 82
Doesn't anybody use the speed control option for improved live performance? I would think, if properly laid out, this could potentially eliminate a lot of cumbersome keyswitching. But as I'm new to the Vienna Instruments, I can't speak from experience yet.
Sean McCoy
Oregon Sound Recording
Posted on Tue, Jul 29 2008 15:19
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1026

I have been playing with the speed control.  It seems amazing to me actually.  The only problem I am running into is that (by the way, it isnt a bug, it's how it works from what I have read and seen) when I say load up Violins legato patch, then load up Violins Staccato and set my speed control, played back live some of the notes get the wrong sample (what I have noticed is that it always seems to be the first note of the desired patch change).  I can even WATCH this happen when I open up VE3 interface.  I can see the delay of one note before witching to the other patch.  So if I play 4 legato notes in a row then do a chromatic scale up for 7 notes, the 1st not is still actually played with my legato sample, then the other 6 are using the staccato sample.  Which is for me not hardly noticeable, what is noticeable to me is when I do fast repitition notes and then slow down.  The first legato note is actually played with my Staccato patch and it's very evident by the difference in vibrato, atk etc.  Now I swear I read it somewhere that this is normal behavior because of how it works so I am looking for a "quick edit" to fix it.  To be honest, sometimes I have to really listen to hear that the note wasn't even played with the right sample.

In Logic 8, what would be the fastest way to fix this?

Another thing I need help on using the speed control is that I cannot ever get them to be "consistent sounding".  What I mean is say I load the legato patch and the staccato patch.  One is always so drastically different then the other (in atk etc) so my legato passages sound mf and my staccato passages sound fff or vice versa.  I am still in the learning curve moving from Gigastudio so sorry if this is an idiot problem to be having.

Can anyone help out with these few things?  I would rather start simple and master a few little tricks at a time.

Thanks,

Maestro2be

Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i7 980x
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Posted on Wed, Jul 30 2008 07:16
by Emperor
Joined on Tue, Jul 10 2007, Posts 64
Conquer wrote:

Sounds good - when using step record for both, isn't there a danger that the keyswitch and melodic note will occur at exactly the same time?

Yes of course, but I use normal record for the melody, I use step record when it comes to key switching and some times I need to precisely position the input point.

However, one drawback of key switches is it will be included with the score, the notation will be spoiled.

Posted on Thu, Jul 31 2008 20:46
by Sampleconstruct
Joined on Tue, Jul 08 2008, Berlin, Posts 40
the notation will be spoiled.

Not if you set highest and lowest note in your Staff style so the keyswitches are outside those boundaries...
Posted on Fri, Aug 01 2008 18:50
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812

That's a great tip, thanks. Hi Maestro 2B, your first staccato probably plays as a legato sample because the gap between it and the note BEFORE it (i.e. the last legato note) is too great for the speed control to kick in and make the switch. (Speed control reacts to how close notes are together, not the same thing as note velocity.) But maybe this should be a separate topic?Wink

Posted on Thu, Aug 06 2009 02:06
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1026

Well I have been trying different things for a while now with this subject in Logic.  For me so far hands down the most convenient and fastest way to do key changes for me is a second pass recording as DG stated.  Merge the two and done.  Even if you miss the timing of the key change note, you can simply go back and edit it and back it up or push it forward to the spot it needs to be in prior to hitting "merge" regions.

Thanks for the tip DG, works wonderful and it's very simple.  Drawing them in never worked for me.  All it ever did was interrupt the note that was playing.  It never actually would trigger the key switch.  Was more of a mess and headache then anything.

Maestro2be

Windows 7 Enterprise SP1 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i7 980x
Vienna MIR PRO, Vienna Instruments, Vienna Imperial, Vienna Suite Pro, Cubase 7.5.5, Presonus Studio One 4.5
Lavry DA10 DAC, RME Multiface 2, Arturia Analog Experience 61-key
Lemur Control Surface
Posted on Thu, Jul 31 2014 09:28
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 22
The Audiogrocery Logic X Toolkit PRO offers two awesome Keyswitching tools:
1. Expression Mapper (MIDI FX plugin).
2. Articulation Maps PRO (MIDI FX plugin).

You can assign custom Articulation Names in the plugin Editor for the corespondent Key Switches etc. Those Articulation Names will be shown in the Logic Automation view so you can draw and edit Articulations easily. The AM PRO Maps offers Key Switch, Program Change, and up to 4 Control Change assignments per Map. Logic chases the Articulation automation perfectly (it is well know that Logic can not chase short MIDI Key Switches which is weird when you move thru the project). The A.G Toolkit offers two MIDI Channel Switchers as well which support changing the MIDI Channel on the fly via Key Switching, Program Change etc.
1. MIDI Channel Switcher (Global Environment Tool).
2. MIDI Channel Switcher (MIDi FX plugin).

    


There are three Demo Videos in the site which show that in details.
Posted on Mon, Oct 13 2014 21:11
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 22
The Audiogrocery Logic X Toolkit PRO solves that easily.
1. The A.G PRO Tools offer perfect Articulation Chasing for the Instruments which support Key Switching cause this is powered by the Logic Track Based Automation.
2. You can transpose the MIDI regions as you want without affection the KS cause they are embedded into Automation (TBA).
3. There are no problems if you want to print your MIDI music to score (the Key Switch Note events are not printed).

4. All A.G Logic X PRO tools support CUSTOM NAMES Articulation (or MIDI Channel Name) Assignments which are shown directly in the Logic Automation. The regular Key Switches or Control Change messages (which are supported for the most of the Sample Libraries) can not be renamed to the corresponded sample library articulation names.
Posted on Wed, Oct 15 2014 11:43
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2629

In Logic I use bank and program changes to change articulation of VSL

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Posted on Thu, Oct 16 2014 22:44
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 22
Your workaround works in the "old way" - have you heard about the Cubase Expression Maps?
The Logic X AM-PRO Maps supports Program Change and Control Change assignments as well. The difference is that you can create User Articulation Names for the Maps and draw or latch Track Based Automation (TBA) which is shown as Articulation names in the Track Automation view. The TBA is much better for editing rather than opening each MIDI region in the various Logic MIDI editors to edit Program Changes or CC. The AM-PRO does not require any Environment Templates (I guess you use a heavy one).
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