RoundRobbin (repitition) issue...Herb?

[svonkampen]

RoundRobbin (repitition) issue...Herb?

Hi...

This applies to entire library...I'm using VE2(XP64)

I will use the PFL (pico) as an example....

Load 2 cells

Cell1a= PFL_staccato (it has 4 alternations)

Cell1b=PFL_sfz_Vib-1 (it has 2 alternations)

now play 8th notes at circa 120 bpm (medium tempo) on the stacato...you can clearly hear the sataccato cycling through it's 4 alternations......

now play 8th notes at circa 120 bpm (medium tempo) on the sfz..........you can clearly hear the sfz cycle through it's 2 alternations

Here is the issue (a big one).....

now keyswitch between the 2 cells on every 8th note, so: stacc, sfz, stacc, sfz, stacc, sfz.......BOTH cells no longer cycle through their alternations, leading to a very stale result....This is an easy fix in the programming....

thoughts?

SvK

[DG]

I haven't checked, but are there any repetition samples that you could use instead?

I don't actually believe that this is a simple programming fix, and your example is not by any means rare. I would also like to be able to choose which staccato note I use and even which repetition, as I could with the Pro Edition. This has been mentioned many times and not just by myself, but so far there has been no response from VSL, so good luck.....!

DG

[svonkampen]

To put it into simpler terms...whenever you keytswitch AWAY from a cell with alternations, when you keyswitch back to it again it will be on the SAME alternation it was previously...........DG, I'm not even asking to choose which alternation is playing, but at least I expect VSL to remember that the last time the Staccato played it was on Alt3 and therefore when keyswitching away and then back to the Staccato again, it is smart enough to advance itself to Alt4.....Does that make sense?

ps: Hiya DG ;-)

It is easy to fix for a programmer...

SvK

[dpcon]

I agree that it would be a very good thing to solve this (and imagine it wouldn't be too hard to program.) Even the old performance tool would advance and be on the next alt when you left and returned to that articulation.

[DG]

@svonkampen said:

To put it into simpler terms...whenever you keytswitch AWAY from a cell with alternations, when you keyswitch back to it again it will be on the SAME alternation it was previously...........DG, I'm not even asking to choose which alternation is playing, but at least I expect VSL to remember that the last time the Staccato played it was on Alt3 and therefore when keyswitching away and then back to the Staccato again, it is smart enough to advance itself to Alt4.....Does that make sense?

SvK

Yes that does make sense, but I wonder whether or not it would be more annoying than the current version. In your example it is certainly preferable, but I can think of others where it would be undesirable. I still think that the answer is either to be able to pick the alternations, or to be able to force a start of the alternating pattern again.

Regarding the old performance tool, I would actually like all the features back again, but only sometimes...! For example, repetitions were a pain to use, whereas now they are easy. It's just that they don't necessarily sound as good. I also would like to be able to force a start note in legato patches and to use the repeat notes as flexibly as I could before.

DG

[svonkampen]

Hi DG...It always makes sense.........Orchestras are RANDOM animals ...The less "machine-gun" the better. SvK

[svonkampen]

Herb, Team VIenna?..............Could we get you thoughts on this?.........thanx.....SvK

[JT3_Jon]

True SvK, orchestras are random animals, so why are we stuck having to hear the same 4 round robins in row? Your solution should be an easy fix SvK, but I still think we should have the option of choosing which articulation will play when, allowing us to "program more randomness" when required. :)

[svonkampen]

fair-enough...........I'm happy with that........then let's do both systems...an advanced option page, to choose whichever one you like (your system)....thoughts? SvK

[svonkampen]

Calling team Vienna..........anyone there ;-) SvK

[Paul]

 Hello everybody,

we do understand your request. For the existing version of the Vienna Instruments, we decided to make repetitions as simple as possible, after finding out that the approach from our previous sample libraries seemed to be way too complicated for many of our users (which is understandable). 

Just wanted to let you know that we are listening. And I don´t want to disappoint you, so I have to damit that this not a #1 priority on our list. And there are workarounds for everybody who is really into the idea of "controled random performance"...

Best, 

Paul

[svonkampen]

Paul....I am actually agreeing that you don't want to over-complicate the system...........BUT...advancing the alt to it's next one after returning to it from another articulation is NOT over-complicating things as it should just WORK automatically (doesn't require the user to do anything)......... It's simply a scripting error and can be fixed within MINUTES....please address it........thanx..SvK

[Paul]

 Hi again,

it´s easy to do it, that´s true. And here´s the next problem: When you skip around in your piece, you will always hear a different alternation than the one you assigned in the "controled random" fashion. Do you really want that?

Just one of the reasons why we decided to "go back to the start" after a certain amount of time. The same is true for the repetitions. 

And this also keeps you out of trouble when it comes to the "Optimize" function. 

We do_think_about the featurses of our software. And once again, rest assured that we are listening. But quick fixes won´tdo anybody any good. 

Thanks for listening. 

Best, 

Paul

[Conquer]

Hi Paul, here's one idea for a solution: a MIDI-controlled global on/off switch for ALL round robins and repetitions.

When it's ON (which would be the default setting), patches ALWAYS cycle through their alternate samples, and if you alternate between patch A and patch B, both will continue to advance through their samples regardless of what's going on elsewhere.

When it's OFF you hear only the first sample (like in the old days). That would enable users to quickly reset to the first sample, or even use the 'machine gun effect' on the odd occasion when it's artistically desirable. (I find it is from time to time, but that's not an issue we need to debate here.)

With this system the only thing you couldn't do is immediately access (say) the fourth repetition as a starting point in a cycle, but even that could be done with a little user programming trickery. As a footnote, personally I want more control over the samples I use, randomness doesn't attract me at all.

Thanks for listening!

[svonkampen]

YESYESYES....I want that.......Give us the global switch Pleaaaseeee... SvK

[svonkampen]

What Conquer said...perfect...... SvK

[Ned Bouhalassa]

Another vote for some kind of choice in the way the round-robin works. I'm doing a lot of repeated arpeggi à la Philip Glass these days, and it's quite frustrating to hear the same samples everytime. Maybe you could put this option (total random RR vs cycle RR) in a place for Expert settings or something. *** Hi Steven!! ***

[svonkampen]

Hi Ned ;-) SvK

[fritzflotow]

I would also like to vote for more controll on repetitions...

[svonkampen]

thanx...fritz ;-) SvK