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Will the VSL choir ever be released?
Last post Wed, Mar 24 2010 by requiem_aeternam7, 43 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Sep 07 2008 14:41
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1654

....Getting tired of my current Choir library I have been using for over 5 years.   What's up VSL?

Rob 

what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Sun, Sep 07 2008 14:54
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Yeah, VSL get on with it. I'm also tired of using a product from another developer that is rather clunky and mediocre, and am sure that yours will be much better. Big Smile


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
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Windows 7 (x64)Pro
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Posted on Sun, Sep 07 2008 19:54
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1030
Without word-builder facility (on soloists too) it will only be good for science fiction and horror flicks; I am hoping the scope of the VSL is infinitely larger than this, although having followed this forum for years I admit the aforementioned, limited, uses will prove to be by far the most common. However, the vast choral and choral-symphonic opportunities do beckon for something more sophisticated than aahhs and oohhs!...
If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Sun, Sep 07 2008 22:14
by Banquo
Joined on Sat, Apr 09 2005, Dublin, Ireland, Posts 395

Agreed, and you know that VSL will deliver the goods on time and in perfect working order.

Howver, regarding the the level of depth and the expense that goes with it, i can't see them going super-realistic without it being super-expensive.

So it's a toss up between pretty good and expensive and really f**kin good, yet really f**kin expensive.

Though I have exactly no money {that reminds me, rent is due}, I hope it's the latter. There are enough mediocre libraries out there [they know who they are :D]

Posted on Mon, Sep 08 2008 00:31
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5443

I agree with all that, but keep in mind one thing -

To correctly sample a choir you are not doing just another instrument.  That is what all the lame choir  libraries that already exist have done and why they are so painful to use.

In fact, you are doing another entire orchestra of sounds.  So a properly sampled choir will essentially be VSL 2.0.  With difficulties like legato on all vowels in multiple velocities in all of the four vocal groups, etc.  etc. etc.  Not to mention the little problem of singing consonants for complete words thrown into that mix.  So this would probably be the biggest and most complex single release of all their samples beside the entire Cube taken together.  To do this correctly obviously involves some innovation that no one else has come up with.  Though based upon the past work they have done VSL is definitely up to the challenge.

Posted on Mon, Sep 08 2008 12:27
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1654

 Good points all around.   VSL - would you like to add your 'update' on progress?

Rob 

what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Tue, Sep 09 2008 17:38
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1654

 OK VSL team - metaphorically speaking - I know your policy is to 'not let the cat out of the bag' - but how about a teaser (of your progress on the choir) to let us at least hear it 'purring'. Wink

Rob 

what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Wed, Sep 10 2008 16:43
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5443

It seems that there are three challenges in doing the choir that are huge - 

1 - the money for all those singers

2 - making them all lose their voices for the legato recordings

3 - inventing a new technology for samples to form complete words that will fit seamlessly into VE

 

So it is understandable that it will take almost as long as the entire orchestral library did, or MIR.

Though I am just as impatient as anybody. I still cannot believe that EW did not record the entire range of each choir in the Symphonic Choir.  That burns me up (especially after buying the damned thing).   Do you realize they took a one step forward and two steps backward from VOTA?  Because that earlier choir (which I also have) had complete ranges on SATB, and could also do word formation, though neither does it very well.  And nobody in the world has recorded real legato which, besides intonation, is the single most important element in singing. There is nothing worse than hearing a sampled choir pinging from one single note sample to another...

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 03:03
by requiem_aeternam7
Joined on Wed, May 14 2008, Posts 108

Please someone tell me of a good choir I am dying for a choir and would pay my life savings for a GOOD one but it seems that choir technology is the most lacking because the supposed 'best ones' that I have heard and cost whopping $$$ are all very disappointing to me from the samples that I have been able to hear or get my hands on. I have heard EWQL choir and Symphony Of Voices I think it was called and some other ones and none of them are terribly impressive. Is there ANYTHING good out there ????????????????

Recently I heard the sopranos instrument addition or whatever it was here on this VSL site and I thought it sounded amazing and I might get it but it's only sopranos :(

 What is the best value right now is it basically East West choir???

“He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
Samuel Johnson

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 03:09
by requiem_aeternam7
Joined on Wed, May 14 2008, Posts 108

Update I just listened to vsl soprano choir demo again. GOOD GOD!! I am definitely getting this soon. SOMEONE PLEASE for the love of god make the rest of the voices alto tenor bass. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VSL is the greatest. Come on guys!!!!

“He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
Samuel Johnson

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 06:37
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, USA, Posts 199

Yes, this is truly an amazing collection. I was initially hesitant to download what I suspected was not only a partial solution (being "just" sopranos) but what I thought would also be incomplete even within the context of a single voicing.

Wrong! Not only is this collection magical, versatile, and very complete in articulations and moods/timbres, but it reacts the best to MIDI-entered note-phrasing of any vocal library I've worked with thus far (most of them, except for Bela D's offerings).

Last weekend, I retracked some stuff that I had earlier used Miroslav Philharmonik for, in the pop vein, and was surprised that the results fit perfectly within the genre in spite of it being a "classical" choir. And like Miroslav, you have your choice of "warm" or "cold" voices.

I've never gotten EWQL Symphonic Choirs + Word Builder to work, and sure wish I could sell it. I have no doubt that once VSL releases a full choir library, there will be no need for Word Builder -- even if that library and auxiliary phrasing tool ever make it to the PLAY engine and Intel Macs.

The only other choir library of interest right now is Bela D's piece-by-piece approach that will refactor Diva, Giovanni, introduces The Tenor, and will flesh all of this out over time with basses/etc. The Tenor is a download instrument, quite affordable, and has some K2 phrasing script support.

The older Symphony of Voices (Akai format) will be folded into Spectrasonics Ominisphere (at least in part) when it is released next Monday. It will be interesting to get some reports on any added usability of the refactoring. 

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 08:20
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1030
I will be rather surprised if EWQL Symphonic Choirs does not make it into the PLAY engine following the recent considerable price-drop... I also own this collection and am hoping for a similarly considerable upgrade discount when that time comes. However, a VSL choral product - even if expensive - will probably find its way to my studio, the recent Pro Edition Upgrade Path annulment fiasco notwithstanding, IF AND ONLY IF it includes word-building capabilities. Otherwise, I believe that even with superior sounding quality and transitions between notes, when EWQLSC makes into PLAY, VSL will only be catering to cliched soundtrack usage (and if the price is prohibitive there is a lot of competition in that department), or scary mock-upists tackling Daphnis & Chloe, Prometheus and the like (which I would love to hear you scary people!...)
If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 13:05
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1654

OK VSL - your turn to post.Wink


Rob
what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 13:45
by michi
Joined on Sun, Dec 22 2002, vienna, Posts 509

Coffee no time for posting - too much work! but to answer the topic question: Yes!

 

all the best, michael

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 16:13
by requiem_aeternam7
Joined on Wed, May 14 2008, Posts 108

WHEN????????????????????? Can we at least get like a ROUGH ESTIMATE you know maybe like the year or the decade i.e. 2009 or 2010? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok on one hand I guess I understand for competition reasons why you would need to hide it I mean I can just imagine the developer for EWQL or whoever your competition is reading this forum and finding the 'smoking gun' and running back to his bosses "I got it!! I got it!! VSL is bringing out their choir Q4 2009!!! Finally we know the date! Now everyone hurry let's finish our choir so we can use this knowledge to beat them out in the market!" - by either shipping it before VSL or at the same time to steal sales etc..it's always best for big companies to have their best project release dates a secret from competitors so that basically competitors aren't given time to develop a strategy to try to steal sales or basically adjust their own developments based on the new discovered time table for VSL's release. But still here's hoping that maybe you're permitted to give us SOME ROUGH estimate at least the year perhaps or something...I'm salivating at the mouth here come on.

“He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
Samuel Johnson

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 16:20
by Sapkiller
Joined on Tue, Nov 05 2002, Copenhagen - Denmark, Posts 394
michi wrote:

all the best, michael

Hal-leluja - Hal-leluja - Haleeluuja Wink

Best regards
Bjarne

"Keep your head cool and your heart warm"
Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 17:48
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1654

 Requiem - you make valid points but I think the risk of giving no 'rough' of the schedule will in fact lose sales.   The current offerings of choirs have their limitations but a pro needing some 'choir' might just purchase what is currently available because he/she is unaware of anything on the horizon.  

Obviously if VSL hits a homerun on this Choir (when it eventually hits the market) - people will say 'crap' - I just paid X for the competition BUT if the projects require it - the pro may spring for the additional dollars - but I am thinking of the 'hobby/semi pro' client (which I bet are MANY) - those are the sales that could be potentially lost given no updates on schedule (becuase they already purchased the competition).

I have the competition's products currently and continue to use them on many projects - I just want what I think will be THE choir offering (judging the two years of using the SOP limited release.) 

Rob 

what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 18:37
by requiem_aeternam7
Joined on Wed, May 14 2008, Posts 108

This is a good point in fact I'm one of those people  you speak of. You see I'm considering getting a choir library in the short to medium term future and if I were to know definitively that VSL choir is coming in 2009 I might wait but if I'm left in the dark as you said I'll have no choice but to buy EWQL or something else instead simply out of necessity.

However just based on my experience and knowledge of such things as big releases from corporations, given the fact that no real announcements to my knowledge have been made or any progress reports divulged I would not expect such a major library to come out anytime before 2010 and honestly even 2010 may be unlikely.

My educated guess is at the earliest Q4 2009 (unlikely), realistically Q2-3 2010, at the latest Q1 or Q2 2011.

“He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
Samuel Johnson

Posted on Fri, Sep 12 2008 19:02
by Rob Elliott
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Salt Lake City, UT, Posts 1654



Yea - if your schedule is possible (I think given the nature of what has to be done - wouldn't surprise me) - if I were in your position I would purchase the competition.   "Clients" won't wait as we all know. 

For me if a project would be more than minimally rewarded by picking a library (new or old) - and I can work it in the budget - I usually get it.  In some cases it could mean winning the gig or not.

No matter what - when VSL releases this important library - there will be many lined up to purchase regardless of what they may have currently on the HD's.

  

Rob 

what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?
Posted on Sat, Sep 13 2008 08:58
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1030
michi wrote:

 

all the best, michael


Just a 'yes' to the topic question - which includes the word 'ever' - is not very helpful, and rather obvious (I know it was meant in good humour, as is this). Can you answer monosyllabically again on whether this choir to be released within the lifetime of this universe, will be literate? Thanks.
If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
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