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Will the MIR engine be able to run via GPU?
Last post Sat, Nov 22 2008 by DG, 17 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Nov 21 2008 17:56
by Ben Johnson
Joined on Tue, Dec 23 2003, Chicago, Illinois, Posts 126

I recently found out about Nvidia's CUDA technology being used in audio applications to aid in real-time processing. Is Vienna looking into this at all to solve the problems of CPU limitations?

Posted on Fri, Nov 21 2008 18:11
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763
We discussed this years ago and decided not to tie our engine to a specific hardware. Our developers have found another way to overcome the limitations of common CPUs.
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Tags: GPU MI
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 05:29
by SyQuEsT
Joined on Mon, Jan 13 2003, Quebec, Posts 617

Easy when you are a genious like the VSL developers Cool

Mathieu Laprise
Sonomax inc.
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 09:33
by timkiel
Joined on Fri, Jun 06 2003, Posts 627
Dietz wrote:
We discussed this years ago and decided not to tie our engine to a specific hardware. Our developers have found another way to overcome the limitations of common CPUs.

However with the advent of things such as Snow Leopard with inbuilt GPU off loading surely it makes sense to revisit the decision and see if extra performance can be obtained by using GPUs?

Although PC users would still be stuck unless Windows 7 does something similar.


Tim
Intel Mac Pro (2 x 2.66 Xeon Dual Core, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 7300GT), RME Fireface 800, OS 10.6.4, Logic 9.1.1 (64-bit mode)
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 10:26
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9117

i'm already suspicious everytime i even hear the word *built in* because this indicates a kind of automatism which cannot be controlled and does something it beleives to be good .... we often had to notice the opposite (eg. with virtual memory)

 

since the idea of using GPUs to convolve initially bounced here already 3 different approaches how to do it have been developed (by the GPU manufacturers) which means IF we would have jumped on that train we have had to re-write the code already 3 times .... nothing a developer would become too enthusiastic about ...

 

basically as soon as you turn around some new stuff (hardware) hits the market ant too often support for not so old products disappears when the successor is released ... the benchmarks for number crunching programs are impressive though ...

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 11:31
by steff3
Joined on Thu, Nov 13 2003, Posts 268
Well,
to me the whole idea of using GPU is rather funny - especially for audio. GPUs are running really hot and needing active cooling. IMHO this only allows such things if you have a machine room. Otherwise those top level GPUs are great for games maybe. Even in 3D animation they do not jump up to the latest chips but to special versions that often not as hyped but support more steady standards and are more reliable.

Since how long there is the discussion of using GPUs for audio plugins? and now a first beta of a IR reverb has been released .... not to impressive.

Well, let's see what snow leopard actually delivers. Interestingly, it seems that Shake (Apple's high end/professional compositing program) was never really adapted to support Core Graphics and Core Video - quite interesting IMHO.

best
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 13:13
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
timkiel wrote:
Dietz wrote:
We discussed this years ago and decided not to tie our engine to a specific hardware. Our developers have found another way to overcome the limitations of common CPUs.

That would also imply that MIR was going to run on OSX.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 14:36
by timkiel
Joined on Fri, Jun 06 2003, Posts 627
Oh, is it going to be Windows only? I thought it would be both platforms?
Intel Mac Pro (2 x 2.66 Xeon Dual Core, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 7300GT), RME Fireface 800, OS 10.6.4, Logic 9.1.1 (64-bit mode)
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 16:05
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

timkiel wrote:
Oh, is it going to be Windows only? I thought it would be both platforms?


Things may have changed, but originally it was planned for Windows only. there were various reasons stated for this, so a search may give you the answers. Maybe Dietz will confirm whether or not a Windows only release is still Plan A.



DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 16:15
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763
The most recent version of the MIR-engine allows for OSX compatibilty, too (... yes, we _do_ listen ;-) ...). But please don't take this as an official announcement yet - things are sometimes very difficult to predict, as far as Apple's product policy is concerned.
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 16:28
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Dietz wrote:
The most recent version of the MIR-engine allows for OSX compatibilty, too (... yes, we _do_ listen ;-) ...). But please don't take this as an official announcement yet - things are sometimes very difficult to predict, as far as Apple's product policy is concerned.

Useful information. Thanks. I assume that it still needs its own computer though?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 17:00
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763
More details t.b.a. soon!
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 17:18
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Dietz wrote:
More details t.b.a. soon!

In the fullness of time, at the appropriate juncture, when circumstances allow................


DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 18:44
by steff3
Joined on Thu, Nov 13 2003, Posts 268
Dietz wrote:
The most recent version of the MIR-engine allows for OSX compatibilty, too (... yes, we _do_ listen ;-) ...).

;) it is good to hear the OSX is considered - it is always better to work with a platform one feels convenient to use - even if the app needs a separate computer anyways :)

best
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 19:17
by Banquo
Joined on Sat, Apr 09 2005, Dublin, Ireland, Posts 395

Come on now Dietz, we're all nervous wrecks over here! With your mysterious 'We solved the CPU thingy'...

I'm ready to jump on the first package with MIR stamped on it that comes out of the VSL factory.

/vibrates at high frequency. 

Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 20:01
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9117

DG wrote:
I assume that it still needs its own computer though?
basically you replied to yourself .... however one would still need a very good machine and as you know VI/VE is not very CPU intensive ...

 

and to put the windows - mac os X question into some context: if apple had not (more or less) dropped PPC and decided to deliver high-end XEON machines the task wouldn't even be on the table. since with OS X everything is a little bit more complicated you should not expect an OS X version too early, first we need to know in detail and practice what snow-leopard really offers

christian

 

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Nov 22 2008 20:43
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
cm wrote:

DG wrote:
I assume that it still needs its own computer though?
basically you replied to yourself .... however one would still need a very good machine and as you know VI/VE is not very CPU intensive ...


I often talk to myself. Nobody else like to talk to the conductor. Sad


I've been thinking a lot about MIR. I really like the idea, although at this point I have no idea whether it would work well for me, or not. The other thing is that unless I install at least 2 MADI cards on both systems, it would need to run across a network, which introduces a lot of latency. therefore it could only be used when mixing; not when any programming has to be done. Unless there is even more to this than meets the eye. Oooo.............. All this speculation. Deliciousssssssssssssssssssssssss.


Regarding VI/VE being CPU intensive, I never have a problem with running out of CPU in any project. However, the ASIO block does suffer dramatically when VE is in the picture. One can even see the CPU meter in both Nuendo and VE jumping up and down like a demented banshee. As soon as I hit "play" the situation gets worse, until I hit the most complex part of the piece, when a few pops and clicks happen. At this point the CPU is usually not even up to 60%, but the ASIO Performance Meter is overloading. Hmmmmmm. Topic for another thread I think. feel free to move it.



DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
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