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Konzerthaus Organ User Interface
Last post Fri, Sep 24 2010 by kamczak, 64 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jan 26 2009 01:09
by CplusE
Joined on Thu, Jul 26 2007, Posts 66

In a weeks time.  I will be a VSL organ owner.  To be able to just jump right in and play would be great. Instead of decrypting the divicci code.  But I guess not matter what face you have it always matter what's inside. And from the demos, the soundsof the vsl organs are amazing.  

iMac i7
Posted on Mon, Jan 26 2009 01:55
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec, Canada, Posts 285

Guy,

I see, Thanks...

Do you have any idea on what could be the Organ's user interface...

Best

Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.9.5

Dorico, Notion5, DP 8, Finale 2012,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Sun, May 10 2009 12:10
by kwbmusic
Joined on Mon, Sep 10 2007, Australia, Posts 10

 Time seems to have gone on - however there is one more Konzerthaus organ user also interested in a more specialised program. Being a keyboardist (not an organist) I am still learning about the various voices available, possible combinations (suitable for Bach, for instance) and I need all the assistance available. A kinder interface would certainly be helpful.

Keith

Posted on Tue, May 12 2009 08:40
by Jann
Joined on Sat, Jan 18 2003, Posts 50

 +1 from me too

Posted on Tue, May 12 2009 20:00
by Manuel Torregrosa
Joined on Sat, Sep 24 2005, Posts 7

If you want to have a real organ software you should you to look to another way:  "Hauptwerk", before by crumhorn labs  and now by milan digital it is the   the ultimate  sofware that you need for play organs,  You could tune up every single pipe !!

Manuel Torregrosa

http://web.mac.com/manuel.torregrosa/
"Only for Organ and Orchestra players"

Posted on Tue, May 12 2009 21:07
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec, Canada, Posts 285

Manuel,

I think that every body here want to use Vienna Konzerthaus Organ as real !

VSL is doing all possible to make us able to use Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, etc... as closed as real...

So, we simply ask the same for there wonderful Symphonic Organ.

No need for Hauptwerk software...

Jut be free to mixed any stops independently in any Division...

We need a Muti-patch boxe... (no limit of 3 patch)

Voilà

Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.9.5

Dorico, Notion5, DP 8, Finale 2012,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Tue, May 12 2009 21:48
by clemenshaas
Joined on Sat, Dec 01 2007, Cologne, Germany, Posts 119
Manuel Torregrosa wrote:

If you want to have a real organ software you should you to look to another way:  "Hauptwerk", before by crumhorn labs  and now by milan digital it is the   the ultimate  sofware that you need for play organs,  You could tune up every single pipe !!

Manuel Torregrosa

http://web.mac.com/manuel.torregrosa/
"Only for Organ and Orchestra players"

this is a little off-topic. 

i think everybody who uses Konzerthaus Organ is absolutely happy with the sound (at least I am), this thread is just about altering the user interface so that combining stops becomes faster.

you can do anything you want with Konzerthaus Organ right now (even "impossible" registrations), it´s just that some action has to be done in Logic, Cubase or whatever, thus slowing down the creative process.

(erm... well, you can´t tune up every single pipe with KO, but that´s okay for me... :) )

Posted on Wed, May 13 2009 20:21
by Manuel Torregrosa
Joined on Sat, Sep 24 2005, Posts 7

Ok, I´m glad to hear that the Konzerthaus Organ is enough for all of you , only I would liked to help any body  that would like  to know and play the Organ in depth.

http://web.mac.com/manuel.torregrosa/
"Only for Organ and Orchestra players"

Posted on Wed, May 13 2009 21:33
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116

 i love bach's organ pieces ... for me bach is the mathematician under composers, the hard-rocker under classics, very nice done.

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Thu, May 14 2009 16:31
by clemenshaas
Joined on Sat, Dec 01 2007, Cologne, Germany, Posts 119
cm wrote:

 i love bach's organ pieces ... for me bach is the mathematician under composers, the hard-rocker under classics, very nice done.

christian

bach would have loved a dedicated user interface.

Posted on Thu, May 14 2009 16:58
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec, Canada, Posts 285

Olivier Messiaen too !

Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.9.5

Dorico, Notion5, DP 8, Finale 2012,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Thu, May 14 2009 17:29
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

.

Posted on Thu, May 14 2009 18:30
by clemenshaas
Joined on Sat, Dec 01 2007, Cologne, Germany, Posts 119
William wrote:

Perhaps a different interface would be helpful, but the existing one is simple to use first of all, has many common registers set up already and you can do absolutely any combination of any stops by using one sequenced track on multiple VE strips.  So you could set up one track with the notes that you would actually be playing on a live organ, and then set up for example four instruments on the same channel with a total of 8 stops of your own choosing. Or any number of  others.  The reasons I suggest that are if the organ is in an orchestral context the registers that already exist are almost certainly sufficient and also,  if you are doing an organ solo you would naturally be able to create separate tracks as the focus is entirely on the organ and it is almost instantaneous to do a new track with different stops. 

I wonder - Guy did a Bach Toccata and Fugue - was the existing interface slow to use on that? 

I am not really arguing against another interface, but it involves making a new setup for the one instrument.  And that complicates the very elegant system that VSL has evolved.  There are  organ solo libraries that have a customized organ interface, but they have no other instruments.  

This is exactly like that percussion thread.  People are demanding that the interface be changed in order to make it more like older sampler systems that did not have all the instruments VSL has with its highly evolved and very well-written single system.  I like the fact that I can learn how to use the VSL interface, and then apply that knowledge to every single instrument tht might ever be used in an orchestral context.

to do the toccata and fugue by bach or anything you like: it takes about exactly realtime. choose any combination of stops and play.

the question is definitely not: is the interface fast enough. fast enough for what? to play bach?

the question is: how quick and intuitive can you set the stops. did you ever do that? setting the stops (orchestrating the organ, if you like) is a very important part of artistic organ playing. if i just want to check two different 8" stops, this takes me 1 second on a real organ, but 1 minute with the current interface. 

there´s no complication necessary. are you sad that vsl changed the standard interface used with boesendorfer to the new vienna imperial? well, i think you´ll get over it.

Posted on Thu, May 14 2009 18:42
by Migot
Joined on Sun, Apr 01 2007, Quebec, Canada, Posts 285

Agree or not with all of your argument...

The thing is...

We need a Muti-patch boxe... (no limit of 3 patch)

Only that...

We are not asking to change the whole VI/VE UI !

Alain LeBlond
Composer born in 1957

Mac Pro (early 2009) 5.1
2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core, 32 Go
Mac OS 10.9.5

Dorico, Notion5, DP 8, Finale 2012,
-VSL, SE Complete Bundle, SE Synchronized, Ve Pro, Vi Pro, MIRx
Roland A-88 keyboard
Posted on Sat, May 16 2009 16:53
by Angelus
Joined on Mon, Jul 23 2007, Wiltshire, UK, Posts 57

William, your points are largely correct in a recording situation. However, whilst the current VSL interface is superb for live playing of many orchestral intstruments, I struggle to understand how it could be thought of as anywhere near acceptable for live playing of a large-scale organ. In fairness to VSL, I accept that the VSL interface performs very well when using it for what it was primarily designed for. However, as an organist trying to use it for live playing of an organ (simply for my enjoyment, by the way), I am constantly disappointed and frustrated by it.

Posted on Sun, May 17 2009 01:02
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

never mind - this is pointless.

Posted on Sun, May 17 2009 08:23
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116

 sorry for my ignorance beeing just a fan of organ sound and music ...

but wouldn't it be necessary for live playing to have 3 or even 4 manuals mapped to seperate MIDI ports and MIDI controllers that work as stops (in german: Zugriegel Controller) and are mapped to the respective functions within VI?

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sun, May 17 2009 09:46
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

It would be very easy to set up VE so that you could use it the same as real organ. Even just using one manual. Provided that you can construct a sound using the patches provided, I don't see what the problem is. Please could someone spell out a single example where the VI interface doesn't work, in words even I can understand, and I might be able to help. Wink


DG


Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, May 17 2009 11:05
by clemenshaas
Joined on Sat, Dec 01 2007, Cologne, Germany, Posts 119

william, you probably edited your last post, but "this person" you mentioned is talking about the fact that vsl changed your sacred user interface drom bösendorfer imperial to vienna imperial. 

DG, i mentioned long ago and more than just once that everything is possible with konzerthaus organ just the way it is right now. i get along with it, it works, and i am happy with the sound. i just would be even happier if i could set the stops more intuitively and faster. one relatively easy way could be to implement the option in vi to play all matrix cells parallel and to be able to "mute" single cells. this way one could load all stops for a manual (save that as a preset) and then "deactivate" (mute) the cells with the stops that are not desired. (add the possibility to assign midi controllers to muting cells - just the same way one assigns controllers to any other function in vi - and anybody who likes can use zugriegel-controllers or whatever).

i do not think such an option would disturb the philosophy of vi, and nobody who would not need this option would be urged to use it.

Posted on Sun, May 17 2009 11:42
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

clemenshaas wrote:
DG, i mentioned long ago and more than just once that everything is possible with konzerthaus organ just the way it is right now. i get along with it, it works, and i am happy with the sound. i just would be even happier if i could set the stops more intuitively and faster. one relatively easy way could be to implement the option in vi to play all matrix cells parallel and to be able to "mute" single cells. this way one could load all stops for a manual (save that as a preset) and then "deactivate" (mute) the cells with the stops that are not desired. (add the possibility to assign midi controllers to muting cells - just the same way one assigns controllers to any other function in vi - and anybody who likes can use zugriegel-controllers or whatever).

i do not think such an option would disturb the philosophy of vi, and nobody who would not need this option would be urged to use it.


 


The way to do all this is to spend some time setting up your patches and combination of patches with multiple versions. This way, not only could you pull out individual stops (by keyswitch) you could also pull out multiple stops by a single keyswitch, much as you do on a real organ. All you need to do is set up multiple versions of each patch across multiple instruments in one VE. This is how (with the Orchestral Instruments) I get velocity xFade on and off on a patch by patch basis, and never have to worry about the switch.


Obviously this could get very complicated, but once set up, it is all "under the hood". In fact, an even better way to do this would be to get a Lemur and then all you have to do is either select patches or multis from the interface. One touch. Can't get simpler than that. Of course you would have to spend some time setting it up, but it would be the nearest thing you could get to live playing.


DG



Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
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