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panning a Baroque chamber piece
Last post Wed, Jul 01 2009 by Banquo, 8 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Jan 24 2009 23:39
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1534

Hello all,

I'm working on a Baroque chamber piece comprised of VSL's Chamber Strings, Solo Violin, and Woodwinds.  My background is in piano so I don't know much about instrument placement for a chamber orchestra.  Could somebody please give me pointers on where to pan each section/instrument.  Is it relative to a large orchestra?  I don't want to start a philosophical discussion about Baroque period music but I read somewhere that since the continuo was the nucleus of the orchestra at that time the instruments performing it were placed in the middle of the stage.  Is this so?   

One other thing.  I understand that the strings were tuned differently during that time period.  Could somebody please tell me how the strings should be tuned to reflect that time period.  What value. 

Incidently, I won't be using a harpsichord, lute or recorders for this piece as I don't have any good sounding samples for those instruments.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Thu, Jan 29 2009 01:05
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1721

Hello Jasensmith

Common at that periode was

                      W o o d w i n d s

                  Violas        Cellos/DB

Violins 1                 Harpsi             Violins 2

a' = 415 Hz  (a half tone below the a' of today)

So it would be nice to play the woodwinds in a farther depth than the strings.

Listen to this as an eaxample (Woodwinds at 1:00 - ...)

Even if the harpsi can be so prominent in front (as soloist) I would place it (acoustically) in the back - somewhere between

the Cellos and the woodwinds.I often select the farther depth for it because it sounds closer than other instruments.

Its bright sound seems to feel it close.

Here you will find some Baroque Music (E-Music) with Harpsi Chord as part of the "Continuo".

And another link:

http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/extras/index.php#04391999f613b9323

Best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Jun 29 2009 15:48
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1534

Hey Beat,

Better late than never I guess but thank you very much for this information as it is very useful.  I'll keep a hard copy filed away.  Unfortunately, I left the forum before your response so I ended up taking my piece in another direction instead of Baroque. 

When you say farther depth for the woodwinds do you mean more reverb as in positioning them further back in the orchestra or just bringing their volume down in the mix? 

Thanks again

Jasen


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Mon, Jun 29 2009 16:34
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1721
jasensmith wrote:

...When you say farther depth for the woodwinds do you mean more reverb as in positioning them further back in the orchestra or just bringing their volume down in the mix? 

Thanks again

Jasen

Hi Jasen

I assume you are using a reverb for your mix.

1. Use the same reverb as you have taken for the strings section.

2. Open a second instance and turn the balance in favour of a little more "wet" than you have done it for the strings.

3. In addition to this you can cut the high frequencies a little bit > This cutting of high frequencies happens in reality by the air. 

    Try this effect (EQ) until you believe the effect supports the feeling of distance.

4. and last but not least keep the stereo withness for the woodwinds smaller than those with the strings (the farther the mono)

    Do this narrowing with the sum of the woodwinds  and route the signal into "the woodwind reverb".

That's it

All the best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Jun 29 2009 23:03
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1534

Beat, your posts, not to mention your orchestrations, are very enlightening as always. 

Thank you again.

Jasen 


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Tue, Jun 30 2009 15:26
by Banquo
Joined on Sat, Apr 09 2005, Dublin, Ireland, Posts 395

Beat, regarding point 1: Do you mean use seperate instances of the same reverb for both sections, or to run both sections through the same instance?

I.e.

a) Reverb applied to Stings and then another reverb (but the same IR, settings) applied to Winds?, or

b) Reverb set up, run both Strings and Winds through it.

Thanks,

Robert.

Posted on Tue, Jun 30 2009 18:50
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1721
Robert Munnelly wrote:

Beat, regarding point 1: Do you mean use seperate instances of the same reverb for both sections, or to run both sections through the same instance?

I.e.

a) Reverb applied to Stings and then another reverb (but the same IR, settings) applied to Winds?, or

b) Reverb set up, run both Strings and Winds through it.

Thanks,

Robert.

Hi Robert

There are two main procedures of using the reverb effect:

1. Use the reverb as a Send Effect. That means: Use the same instance for both - strings and woodwinds - by changing the amount of "Send".

2. Use two instances - each with the same IR but with different depths - and run the strings and woodwinds through the corresponding depth.

I prefere the second solution because you can create more different depths than with No 1.

Unfortunately it is less "CPU-friendly".

Best

Beat Kaufmann

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Jul 01 2009 16:54
by Banquo
Joined on Sat, Apr 09 2005, Dublin, Ireland, Posts 395

That's what I thought. Thank's Beat :)

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