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  • Outstanding Performance with Vienna Ensemble

    C
    C

    Hi everyone,

    I have to admit that for the past year I've have struggled finding a Logic/VSL configuration that was solid and promoted an optimal workflow using my new MacPro.  After many attempts and numerous templates, I have found that using VE as a stand-alone versus using it as a plug-in, by far,  provides the most stable development environment.

    I feel compelled in writting this in case anyone else in the user community is using a Mac Pro (8-core), maybe they can benifit from my trials.  Considering that we in the Mac world are still 32-bit, for me, memory limitations not CPU has been the real culprit. I hate freezing tracks and purging samples!!!  By implementing the stand-alone approach not only provides the use of memory that has been sitting idle but is also proving to be the most reliable and stable.  I would have to re-boot on the average of 3 time per day during a 12 hour session.  For the past week since I went with the stand-alone configuration, re-booting is something of the past.

    I'm currently using 4 stand-lone instances of VE, (Winds, Brass/overflow Perc, Percussion/Keys & Strings/Choir) each having 16 instruments, a wet and dry bus to control debth placement, with an Altiverb loaded in each.  Additionally, I have each channel with the new VSL EQ, some with Exciters, the masters with Master EQ & Multiband and using the built in power-panner.  I have all my samples loaded and so far have not needed to purge anything - just concentrate on composing.

    I can see where having slaves is a real time-saver but for now, knowing that I am able to fully utilizing my machine investment is a real joy.  

    The real test was using the same sequence I wrote in Logic 8 last year using individual Vienna Instrument plug-ins.  That approach was stable but required me to purge samples and freeze most of the tracks in order to obtain a smooth play-back.  Even then, I was only using a single Altiverb , none of the VSL Suite tools, and high latency settings (Apogee ensemble).  Using four stand-alone instances of VE requires no freezing or purging for the same sequence.  With that configuration and in the parts of my sequence where most instruments are playing at the same time, the highest I've seen the CPU read is 35%. 

    My hats off to the VSL developers.  Your team have provided a very CPU efficient tool.  Keep up the good work.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Hello

    What library are you loading in your 4 VE ?

    Do you use IAC ?

    Best

    Cyril

    P.S. Thanks to VSL do provide us now a decent editor on the Web pages

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C

    Hi Cyril,

    Yes I use the Apple IAC Midi drivers.  As far as libraries, I have all of the libraries that VSL has to offer except for the Special Edition.  The template that I'm currently working with is a Modern Orchestra configuration of which contains the largest number of instrument/sections of all the Orchestra types.  I figure if it can handle a Modern Orchestra config then It should be able to handle any Orchestra style.
  • S
    S

    Thanks a lot for sharing, Chuck!

    You are doing exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. (Mac pro/16 Gb memory/Fireface 800/Logic Pro)

    How do You route audio back to Logic, if so? Any details is much appriciated.

    Best

    Sten
  • D
    D
    Hey styxstyx, Doesn't the Fireface 800 software TotalMix let you route a bunch of tracks internally? Such as routing the VE channels out to another channels in (which would be in Logic). I'm interested if this works actually, I was thinking of picking up a FF800.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    HI Sten

    I have a PCI Motu studio, I have put a light-pipe cable between Out and In

    Best

    Cyril

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C

    Sten/Cyril,

    I also am currently using a light pipe between the in and out.  I find that I can only have 1 of my 4 VE engines running while I'm recording my MIDI to audio without having some pops.  I've even tried increasing buffers on the audio device.  I've been having conversations with techs at Sweetwater on this subject.  They believe it's a clocking issue and are looking into a possible solution.  The Symphony card (Apogee) has a Vbus that routes audio but your looking at approx 2,800 for the setup.  The way I figure, that's a slave computer - problem solved.   My current approach is not a show shopper by any means because I usually record the individual instrument groups in their own audio track.  The only disadvantage is that you loose the ability to do a quick bounce of everything.

    I'm going to try an analog patch cord to see if performance improves.  The negative to that approach is now the audio is forced to go through converters which may or may not be noticeable in sound quality. 
  • D
    D

    What abut an SSL MADI card? Will that work with your set-up. Way cheaper that what you are suggesting, and gives you 64 stereo channels of audio.

    DG
  • C
    C

    Not sure, I'll have to check into it.  Thanks DG for the suggestion......
  • C
    C

    Hi Chuck,

    I was in the beta phase of the new SSL MadiXtreme 128 and it works perfectly with VE! I use it now everyday.

    You can loopback the first Madi I/O and you have 64 channels for as many VE standalones as you want. e.g. 2 VE´s with full 16 stereo out each, or 4 VE´s with 8 stereo, etc.

    For the second Madi I/O you have to get a madi to analog converter to monitor all your signals, or output them to a mixing console.

    The SSL card has 256 I/O in total. So it is really VERY flexible.

    best

    christian
  • C
    C

    Thank's Christian.  I went to their website and checked it out.  I may definitely consider this option.  Thanks again..

     
  • D
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    @chriskard said:

    Hi Chuck,

    I was in the beta phase of the new SSL MadiXtreme 128 and it works perfectly with VE! I use it now everyday.

    You can loopback the first Madi I/O and you have 64 channels for as many VE standalones as you want. e.g. 2 VE´s with full 16 stereo out each, or 4 VE´s with 8 stereo, etc.

    For the second Madi I/O you have to get a madi to analog converter to monitor all your signals, or output them to a mixing console.

    The SSL card has 256 I/O in total. So it is really VERY flexible.

    best

    christian

     

    The only downside that I could see was no 64bit drivers. However, that won't affect Mac users.

    DG
  • C
    C

    Good catch DG...  How responsive are they in providing updated drivers?  -- When Snow Leopard arrives.
  • D
    D
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    @Chuck Green said:

    Good catch DG...  How responsive are they in providing updated drivers?  -- When Snow Leopard arrives.

     

    I don't think that drivers for Snow Leopard will be any more problematic than anything else. There is a lot to go wrong in the transition to 64bit on Mac, and whilst in some ways it ought to be slightly less painful than on Windows, I think that the expectations of many people may not initially be met, much as they weren't with Leopard.

    Regarding SSL MADI Windows 64bit drivers, they did say that there would be some eventually, but if I ever need to go the MADI route, I'll go with RME.

    DG
  • C
    C

    Understand DG,

    As far as Snow Leopard goes, I've made my mind up (learning from past mistakes) to not jump on the band wagon right away.  Being on the bleeding edge is not what it's all cracked up to be.  This time, I plan to wait a couple of months until the bugs get worked out and third party drivers, samplers, instruments, etc. are compatible before I switch operating system.  Need to keep a stable system working....
  • C
    C

    I am doing the same thing as the original poster - running standalone instances via IAC.

    The routing back of audio I accomplish by using JackAudio.

    It does seem to be the best way to go at the moment. I had been struggling too with Plugin-Instances which only chokes Logic's virtual memory and ultimately crashes it.
  • C
    C
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    @Crescendo said:

    I am doing the same thing as the original poster - running standalone instances via IAC.

    The routing back of audio I accomplish by using JackAudio.

    It does seem to be the best way to go at the moment. I had been struggling too with Plugin-Instances which only chokes Logic's virtual memory and ultimately crashes it.

    Hi Crescendo.

    I managed to get Soundflower up and running but gave up on it due to persistent digital crackling. I tried Jack but cannot get the Connections Manager to play ball. If you find the time, is there any chance of a step-by-step? Would be much appreciated. Will be a while before I can stretch to a slave system. Cheers..

    Colin
  • F
    F
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    @ct1961 said:

    tried Jack but cannot get the Connections Manager to play ball. If you find the time, is there any chance of a step-by-step? Would be much appreciated. Will be a while before I can stretch to a slave system. Cheers..

    Colin

    OK

    1-Before Opening Logic and VE3, start Jack Pilot and go to the preference.

    2-Choose the proper audio interface,

    3-choose how many connections you need between your host and logic in Virtual input and output channels;

    4-disable auto-connect with physical ports (you don't want VE3 to communicate directly with the soundcard, just Logic will be connected to It);

    5-Star the jack server on Jackpilot;

    6-open Logic...Open one or multiple instance of VE3 (you can copy and rename the applications) (wait until each software is loaded before opening another one or you will get errors);

    7-Press the routing button on jackpilot and connect logic to the system output by double-click on the receive port section while logic is selected on the send port section;

    8-Connect each VE3 Send Ports to Logic's Receive Port;

    9-In logic create Aux tracks or Audio Tracks (in monitoring) With the proper input that match the output on VE3 (I have 60 differents channel because I monitor each instruments on different audio tracks. But you can try a simpler set up by grouping instrument to the same output.

    There's a way to get both midi and audio on the same instrument track by using the External Midi instrument but It's gonna be to long to explain for the moment.

    That's it for the audio part. I assume that the midi part already working with the IAC. If not, try creating a monitor object in the click and port environment and connect every IAC out port to it or it will do a midi loop...

    Excuse my english, I'm french speaking.

    Fred
  • C
    C

    Thanks very much for that Fred- shall give it a go later today. Your English is of a high standard so there's no need to excuse yourself.

    Mersea Bowcoo[;)]

    Colin
  • C
    C

    Hello again Fred.

    Just to let you know that I managed to get Jack up and running. Thanks a million![:D]

    I had originally been thrown by the PDF stating something along the lines that, with intel macs, you had to create an aggregate device. No problem there, just selected my soundcard across the board in AMS, then Jack Router in both VE and Logic and it worked a treat.

    I actually set up external multis in the Environment for each IAC bus and have no problem creating as many Auxes as I will need. Will finally be able to utilise my 11GB RAM.  Having said that, I am yet to sequence some music to test it properly, so here's hoping the sound holds together. Encore une fois, merci.

    Colin