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Vienna Ensemble and Kontakt 3 - perform same tricks?
Last post Sat, Feb 07 2009 by stevenson_17312, 5 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Feb 05 2009 14:03
by stevenson_17312
Joined on Sun, Oct 30 2005, Posts 17

Myself, another composer i often work with, and his assistant, use a library i developed for the exs24 years ago, using the best samples we could find at the time, a mixture of vsl, miroslav, siedlecek, even some apple jampack as well as our own custom samples and sampler instruments. Its been great but its time to upgrade.

There are many ways of going about this, and we also have a fantastic custom library we may want to incorporate that is in Kontakt 3 format. We are missing many good things, and we are attracted to the VSL route because:

- Kontakt 3 comes with a lot of VSL

- We can integrate our custom library

- We can download individual instruments where we feel we are missing something.

- The Vienna Ensemble uses the same extended memory technique as the EXS (i believe) and can be run as a standalone. In fact it appears you can run several standalones.

However, I am not terribly happy about having both Kontakt and VE open running, simply for the sake of simplicity.

So:

1. Can Vienna instruments run in Kontakt 3?

2. Will the fancy scripting be preserved (such as the intelligent performance analysis in VE)?

3. Can the library that comes with Kontakt 3 be used in VE?

I am highly aware of the issues regarding 32 bit Logic (our DAW) and the memory limitations. Currently I am developing a template in Plogue Bidule for 3rd Party sampled-based plugs such as Kontakt, Ivory, RealGuitar etc. Initially I wanted to run this via Rewire, but i am not discounting using Jack or Soundflower and perhaps another AU host, or VE as a standalone. I am just not wild about having a piecemeal approach, but I want to preserve the possibility of being able to use our custom stuff.

Posted on Thu, Feb 05 2009 15:38
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13508

Welcome Stevenson :-),

Vienna Instruments Collections cannot be loaded into any other sampler player, due to the realtime lossless decompression that is applied in the background (it basically helps you to save both RAM and harddrive space)

The free VSL library that comes with Kontakt3 will not work with the Vienna Instruments either, for the same reason - Vienna Instruments need a custom data format to work.

Here´s the GOOD NEWS: We will open up Vienna Ensemble 3 for 3rd party plug-ins, so that you can load Kontakt or other plug-ins into Vienna Ensemble :-).

Also, the 64 bit version of Vienna Ensemble is looking good right now, I am confident that we will get through our betatesting rather quickly.

Hope that helps.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Feb 05 2009 15:57
by stevenson_17312
Joined on Sun, Oct 30 2005, Posts 17

thank you for your welcome and quick reply!

ok that makes sense. presumably the lossless decompression is a little more drain on cpu. and the 64 bit version is for windows?

what about the older VSL stuff that we own? will that be loadable in vienna ensemble? how much editing is available to us to tweak the samples to our preference? i don't just mean cutoff filters etc but individual sample output levels, intonation, start times, looping etc? can we import exs instruments?

presumably we have to wait until VE3 to be able to add our own samples or custom samples. is that right?

Posted on Thu, Feb 05 2009 19:07
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

 I don't work for VSL, but from my understanding:

  1. Vienna Ensemble is a host, not a sample player, so you would be loading a 3rd party sample player such as Kontakt into VE.
  2. The samples in your chosen sample player should be able to be tweaked as much as you can using any other host.
  3. EXS instruments will be able to be imported, provided that the sample player you choose offers that option
  4. You will still need a sample player to import your own stuiff into.
  5. There has been a Windows 64bit version of VE for ages, so I assume that Paul is talking about Snow Leopard.

VSL hasn't said that they will ever open Vienna Instrumnets to 3rd party samples, so you'll just have to hope, if that's what you want to do.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Feb 07 2009 11:37
by stevenson_17312
Joined on Sun, Oct 30 2005, Posts 17

thanks for your reply.

the ultimate aim is to be able to mix and match samples - or at least articualtions - from different libraries. or at least sections perhaps, or individual instruments. this creates problems such as where to host all this in an efficient way, to be able to treat an instrument with articulations from several libraries as one, and mix them.

having everything within the exs was very convenient that way - not to mention portable. but if we want to tap into the power of scripting and intelligent performance that the newer libraries seem to offer then we need to be able to use the articulations/instruments with the samplers for which they programmed.

therefore vienna ensemble, if it is as cpu and memory efficient as we hope it might be, might be the answer. that way everything can be contained and loaded up in the one spot. if it can distribute processing across cores and gain access to all system RAM whether it is 32bit or 64bit, as well as allowing us to send the audio back into the host DAW, then it will be far more useful than for just its own proprietary library.

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