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  4. Posted for feedback: "Das Uhrwerk (op.109)"

  • Posted for feedback: "Das Uhrwerk (op.109)"

    M
    M
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi all,


    this is my very first piece using the VSL Special Edition (Standard/Standard Plus), which I purchased last christmas.


    I'm a complete newbie in regard to arranging and mixing orchestral music and it was not my goal to re-create a naturally sounding ensemble by any means. Anyway, I'd love to get some constructive feedback on my work (and especially on the mix), because I want to improve my skills and because it seems that I can't trust my monitors at all, which most of you for sure consider to be the lowest of the low-end (ESI nEar05 Classic). 😉


    I tested the piece on my iPod and other standard equipment, which - after fiddling the hell out of it - seems to work alright. But if there is anything I could do better, please let me know. Your input will be highly appreciated.


    "Das Uhrwerk (op.109)"



    All the best Heiko


    PS: Which MP3-encoder do you prefer? To me the results of LAME Enc are not 100% convincing, as the sound tends to get a much flatter appeal than the version at 16-bit/44kHz.
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hallo Heiko

    You mentioned that it wasn't your goal to recreate a naturally sounding ensemble. Nevertheless, here is my feedback to the mix...

    When I'm listening to the Uhr (headphone) it starts with a pizz bass.

    It seems to be that it is once on the right, then at the left, then more in the center and so on.

    There is also a flute which seems to be more in the back - a bit left. I can find the position of the flute much more better than those of the pizz bass.

    Woodwinds? and Violas into each other?

    ff Cellos at 1:50 just in front of me

    Cabasas or other percussion far away but in a bathroom...? anyway - not the room of other instruments

    Tubular bells away from me but in another room than the brass instruments...

    That's what I recognize when I'm listening to your piece.

    Now I don't know whether it was your intention to mix the piece this way or not.

    If not - how to get it more natural?

    Draw your virtual stage (bird's-eye view) on a paper and place all the instruments on it. Now try to reach the same positions in your mix.

    Select your favourit reverb and try to create 2 - 3 depths with a reverb instance for each depth on a bus channel for each depth.

    Take the same basic preset for each reverb but with different dry/wet setups (Later on you will vary more parameters).

    In rough outline: The more wet - the farther away seems an instrument to be. It is not really necessary to have a reverb with a long tail for that.

    Now...

    With the balance L / R you can shift the instruments from left to right

    By routing a certain instrument to the correct bus (depth) you can achive the correct stage depth.

    Beat Kaufmann

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • C
    C

    Hi Heiko

    Sounds like a pretty decent mix to my ears. The only thing that stood out to me was the timpani roll near the beginning- sounds like the timpanist got left in the Dressing Room!  Obviously as it's not purely standard orchestral fare, it's hard to judge exactly how much realism you were aiming for, but having said that, by and large, it has a natural sounding environment. Well produced, interesting piece. Good luck.

    Colin
  • M
    M

    Well, thanks for your quick feedback! :)


    Beat, so you think stereo positions are too confusing and undefined? Well that was the main problem I had with this piece, although I was already using different depths of reverb on different busses. The pizz bass is actually panned dead center, but it's accompanied by pizzicato violins on the left and pizzicato celli on the right. These three elements drive the main groove. Hmmm... maybe I'll need to tidy the field up again some day, but right now I'm entirely sick of this. ;-)


    ct1961, what exactly does "sounds like the timpanist got left in the Dressing Room" mean? Are they sounding too dull, too far in the back, too upfront? Not exactly sure, what you mean.
  • C
    C

    Just sound very far back in comparison to the rest of the instruments..
  • M
    M

    Ahh, okay. Well, on the one hand I did this because the tuning of the timpanis is not exactly on point with the bass and since I could not make it shine, I buried it on the far right, which I considered quite a good solution. Anyway, your perception is very interesting and helpful. Thanks a lot, guys!
  • M
    M

    Alright, after thoroughly checking my project-settings and listening to the mix with fresh ears, I discovered, that I actually had a serious routing problem - like Beat assumed already. This practically rendered all of my track positions useless. :P


    Thanks a lot, guys, for bringing that up. I'll share the - hopefully - optimized version later on.


    All the best
    Heiko
  • M
    M

    OK, I have updated the file and I'm pretty happy with the optimization so far. Your feedback has been very valuable. To me the piece is sounding much more defined now. Please let me know your opinion about it.


    And remember: for me - at least for this piece - a clean and well balanced mix is more important than re-creating a realistically sounding orchestra.


    All the best.
    Heiko
  • C
    C

    Hi Heiko.

    Can't do an A/B comparison with your original file but, as I posted above, it sounds fine to me through my monitors. I'd be happy enough with it too.

    Colin
  • M
    M

    Well, you are right. Maybe I should have left the original version online for comparison purposes. Next time I will. :)


    Anyway, thanks for listening! Hopefully there will be some more feedback from other people out there. Any opinion is welcome!


    Cheers
    Heiko
  • A
    A

    Hello

    I really like your composition and use of sound, its very enchanting, the only real sound in the mix that I found a little intense was the picking during the sort of main theme (1:07) they sonud almost over saturated, very upclose in the mix.  Maybe bringing the strings when they are plucking down ever so slightly will improve that.  But still it is a great piece.
  • M
    M

    Thanks for your input, Andrew. I'm very glad, you like it. =)


    Well, I'm not quite sure, what you define as "picking". Do you mean the pizzicatos or the very high frequencies that I soar over the other instruments or maybe the muted harp in the middle or the clock ticking? Sorry, but I can't find any picking sound at the time you mentioned. Maybe you mean 2:07? Please let me know.


    Thank you!
    Heiko
  • M
    M

    Heiko,

    I liked this a lot. 

    Marko
  • M
    M

    Well, thank you, Marko! Great to finally get some feedback. =)


    I'll post another version soon, including some minor tweaks. Thank you all for listening. It helps a lot!


    All the best
    Heiko
  • A
    A

    Hey Heiko

    Yes i did mean pizzocato, i was ment to type plucking, but was typing a little to fast and amde a msitake lol
  • M
    M

    OK, then at least I did fix the correct thing. ;-)


    In the soon to be updated version (hopefully during the next hour or so) I pushed the pizzicato strings more in the back as you suggested. You were right, they sounded a little too obtrusive.


    Thank you!
    Heiko


    PS: seems like typing "a little too fast" is your style, eh? :D
  • M
    M
    last edited
    last edited

    I just uploaded the updated mix. Please let me know, what you think.


    Thanks!
    Heiko
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on