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VE Bus noise
Last post Wed, Oct 28 2009 by Arthur Ricane, 29 replies.
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Posted on Sat, May 09 2009 03:35
by Gondwana
Joined on Thu, Sep 29 2005, Posts 15

Hi,

I get serious didital kracks only in the return channel (bus) when i try to route instruments through that bus, for using it may be whith the new reverb. Even when there is no Fx in the return channel. It´s just a simple pre fade into bus mixing configuration. For testing the instrument channel itself was mutet.

I use two identical PC´s for all my Vienna Stuff. Intel core 2 Quad, 2.4Ghz, 8GB Ram, ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe, XPx64, RME 9652.

The one I have the problems with is just doing Strings. My idea was to give all the instruments the same amount of reverb by setting all the sends to 0.0 ( unity gain).

The thing is, the more channels (instruments) I set the send´s, the more digital noise I get in the return. But I just playing one instrument. I using about 28 insruments in VE as stand alone(5,6GB used). Even when I route the instrument itself to a bus I get the krackling noise. Depending how much send´s I setted.

RME Buffer is 256. Changing it has no effect.

On the other PC it  seems to be OK, but i don´t use that much instruments on that.

I´m using all of the Vienna´s for years, allways up to date, never had problems like that. But I never used the Bus, because there was no need.

Someone any idea?

Thanks

Stephen

Posted on Sat, May 09 2009 07:24
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11351

Hello Stephen,

we are aware of this issue and it will be fixed with the next update of the Vienna Ensemble!

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, May 10 2009 02:57
by Gondwana
Joined on Thu, Sep 29 2005, Posts 15

Hi Paul,

good to know, that is not my mistake.

Thanks 

Stephen

Posted on Sat, Jul 25 2009 20:10
by rilesmusic
Joined on Wed, May 31 2006, Posts 8

Hi Paul.  I've been having this same problem with popping audio coming from a bus set up within VE2.  It only started when I (finally) updated to Logic 8 and OS 10.5 a few months ago.  No problems at all before that.  I updated to the new build (2.0.3711) yesterday and I'm still having the same problem.  I think I can work around it by sending each instrument to it's own "HW OUT" in VE2 and set my effect amount directly on the Logic aux channel for each instrument.  But that's kind of a pain, and of course not the way VE is supposed to work.

Am I missing a setting somewhere or overlooking something?  The pops or audio crackling comes only from the VE2 output that comes from the internal VE bus.  Maybe they missed that fix in the latest build?

Thanks for any help,

Tim

Posted on Sun, Jul 26 2009 15:10
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

I have this same bus noise problem using VE2 (latest build) in Logic 8.0.2 in Mac OS10.5.7 on an Intel Mac.

I ignored it way back because I usually use Logic's buses - it would be good if this was fixed though.

Regards - Colin

Posted on Mon, Jul 27 2009 02:15
by Gondwana
Joined on Thu, Sep 29 2005, Posts 15

Hi there,

I just updated to the latest version only on one of my slave PC(Intel core 2 Quad, 2.4Ghz, 8GB Ram, ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe, XPx64, RME 9652)

The noise in the Bus is still there :-((

Very sad.......Very sad.......Very sad.......Very sad.......Very sad.......

Bye

Stephen

Posted on Mon, Jul 27 2009 15:12
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11351

Hi,

we´re having a hard time to reproduce this here...

Please let us know the following details:

Are you using VE 2 or VE 3, and is it used as standalone or as a plug-in?

Seems like you are all using one machine, apart from Gondwana, right?

We will create a test-build for you, to find out what´s going on.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jul 27 2009 18:35
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

Hi Paul and thanks for your response.

I am using VE2 build 3711 as an AU plugin in Logic 8.0.2 on an Intel Mac Pro with OS 10.5.7 (one machine only).

I set up a stereo VE2 in Logic. If I add one instrument, and then send this to Bus 1, all is ok. However, if I add a second instrument, and send this to Bus 1 also, the noise starts. Even if I mute the first instrument, the noise continues. 

Can I send you a session file with my setup? Maybe this will help. Of course, I may be doing something wrong.....

Regards - Colin

Posted on Tue, Jul 28 2009 01:00
by Gondwana
Joined on Thu, Sep 29 2005, Posts 15

Hi Paul,

me again, just to explain my setup........

I´m using 3 PC´s as Slaves, all very similar (Intel core 2 Quad, 2.4Ghz, 8GB Ram, ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe, XPx64, RME 9652), VE2 as standalone( 3711).

All are controlled by MidiOverLan from my Mac G5 PPC Dual 2Ghz.

I sill have this Bus noise discribed in my first post on all three machines as I tested today.

My VE2 setups have about 20 Instruments each. I must say that I use these setups since VE2 came out and developed them step by step. Just when the convolution Reverb came out I added two Busses and than I reaized this Noise exactly in this proceedure I discibed in my first post.

When I have time I will initiallize a new setup, add Instruments and busses and see when this noise starts.

Maybe this helps.

should I send you my setups?

Bye

Stephen

Posted on Tue, Jul 28 2009 02:02
by rilesmusic
Joined on Wed, May 31 2006, Posts 8

Hi Paul.  Yes, thanks for the quick reply.  I'm using VE2, build 3711 as a plugin in Logic 8.0.2 in OS 10.5.7 on a Mac Pro.  I have other computers in my setup but only run Vienna on my main Mac.  I run VE2 (2 instances usually) as a multi-output instrument in Logic.  So I've set up a bus within VE2 to go to a Logic aux chanel that feeds to a reverb.  That way I can use VE's sends to set the amount of reverb on each instrument.  I only noticed the problem happening after I updated to Logic 8 and OS 10.5 a few months ago.  Before that I was using VE2 in the same way and having no problems with this setup.

So as it is now, I have maybe 5 instruments opened in an instance of VE2.  I create a bus in the plugin and set it's output to HW 3-4.  Once I am playing back at least 2 instruments at once, the popping starts.  It almost sounds like a clocking issue, but it's coming from within the plug-in.  The popping is coming only from the bus channel and it doesn't matter what HW output I set for the bus, still popping on that output.  And if I set up other busses and route the instrument sends to one of those other busses, then the popping happens there.  And even if I set the sends to go directly to HW 3-4 without going through a bus, the popping still happens at that output.  And just to be clear, there's no popping unless 2 or more of the instruments are playing.  You know, I don't know if this might have anything to do with it, but I'm running my Logic sessions at 48k, not 44.1.  Could there be some clocking issue within the programming of the sends in the plugin?

By the way, if I run each VE instrument to its own HW output, so each has it's own aux channel in Logic, and I set the effect level on each Logic channel individually, then everything works fine.  This is my temporary work-around, but it means I can't use the sends from within VE2, and I guess for other people it means they can't use the convolution reverb?

Anyway, thanks for the help.  Please ask us if you have any more questions about our setups.

Tim

Posted on Wed, Jul 29 2009 03:20
by Gondwana
Joined on Thu, Sep 29 2005, Posts 15

Hi Paul,

I did some testing this evening. First of all I updated my RME HDSP card. The card is set to 6ms, ext wordclock (Big Ben). All my PC´s are very basic Win XPx64, VE2, MoL, nothing else. (no internet or email)

I initiallized a new setup with 8 Instruments and 2 Busses. All Instr. have two sends (bus 1&2) set to 0.0db, pre fader, all outputs go to HDSP 1/2. NO INSRUMENT LOADED NOW!

Than I loaded only ONE Sound in Instr. 1. ( Orch. Strings, long notes). Now I can listen to the sound through the Instrument channel and/or through the bus. Now I can compare the outputs by muting. The sound should be the same at the instrument or at the bus output. BUT the sound through the bus is added with that crackling noise. The noise sounds similiar to a clock problem.

When I reset  the send of the unloaded instruments to ∞ the noise disappeares.

So, the more sends are opened, the more noise I get, with sounds loaded or not.

I also found out, when I route the Insruments outputs direccly to the bus, it seems ok. Like subgroups. That was different in the previous version (when I remember my first workaround, I´m not really shure)

So now, I´m shure, it is not really a bus problem. It´s a send Problem!! Seems like thomething in the mixer is wrong. It really sound like a internal clock problem. Sometime you hit a sustained note it seems ok, but by hitting it again it is full of digital ckacks.

I made some mp3´s of that noise, but I don´t know how to post them.

Im wondering that only some people have this issue, because it is so obvious when you start using the mixing possibillities in VE2 and the convolution reverb in a standard configuration. I searched the forum since convolution reverb came out and I suddently got this noise. But nobody seems to have this problem. But now I´m not alone. ;-)

so far……Bye

Stephen

Posted on Thu, Jul 30 2009 21:00
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

Hi Paul (or anyone at VSL),

Any news on this? Do you want us to send our setups? Can you duplicate the problem?

Any news would be welcome....

Regards - Colin

Posted on Fri, Jul 31 2009 01:18
by Murtishi
Joined on Sat, Jul 11 2009, Chicago, Posts 12
I have the same problem....using VE2...does anyone know if upgrading to VE3 solves the problem?? Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Tony
Posted on Fri, Jul 31 2009 01:55
by FredB
Joined on Sat, Apr 01 2006, Montreal, Posts 668

Same problem here on VE3.3711, Mac Pro Quad and Logic Pro 9. Have to use the multi-out version instead of the stereo, mix directly in Logic mixer but losing the freeze fonction wich is crucial when the project become to large. The mixing environment of VE and the templates i have are now completely useless.

I'm a bit impatient to see that problem solved.

Can someone tell me to wich version I have to downgrade to fix this?

thanks

Fred

Master: Imac I7 32Gb Late 2013 - - OsX 10.13.6
Slave: Corei7 6800k 64gb - Win 10
Soft: Logic X 10.4.4 - ProTools 12.x - VE Pro 6 - VI Pro 2 - MIR
Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2009 10:23
by gyohng
Joined on Tue, Nov 22 2005, Posts 183

Hello,

Very soon an updated version will be available, which fixes this issue. Please stand by.

Thanks,
George.

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2009 10:29
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

Thanks for this info George.

Please keep us informed........

Posted on Thu, Aug 13 2009 20:44
by amcmaster
Joined on Mon, May 21 2007, USA, Posts 4

Just had an email chat with Colin after finding this thread. I am having the same problem as stated. Can you tell us how close we are to an update.

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew McMaster
Posted on Tue, Aug 25 2009 06:45
by mplaster
Joined on Fri, Jan 12 2007, phoenix | az | usa, Posts 217

Hello???? Any news on the Crackly Noise Bus express? :)

It's starting be get aggravating, that i can only send ONE instrument channel to a bus, as once i bring up the send on a second channel the crackling begins. My only workaround is to instead instantiate an Altiverb on every single channel, which is killing my CPU power...

So where are we at, VSL? This has been goin on since version 3452 (or something) Please at least let us know any progress and how soon we might expect the next version of VE to be available..

Thanks!  :)

michael

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Posted on Wed, Aug 26 2009 19:43
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11351

Hello Michael,

"So where are we at, VSL?"

We are currently at focussing all energy on the last steps to release VE PRO.

I have just sent you the link to some internal builds - if anybody else is interested, please contact me via a mail to support.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Aug 27 2009 05:52
by mplaster
Joined on Fri, Jan 12 2007, phoenix | az | usa, Posts 217

Thanks so much, Paul!  Yes, i got the link and so far the cracklin' bus noise has not (yet) appeared! Three Cheers for VSL!!!... Theres a very minor GUI bug, but simply minimizing and then reopening the window takes care of it, so it's very trivial... im just glad to have the sound working perfectly again.

Thanks for your hard work and attention!  Party!!!

-michael

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