Hi, I have a little problem and don't know exactly how to solve it... will appreciate all your idea's and advices! I want to write for a saxo alto 1 an 2, or clarinet 1, 2 and 3, or whatever... For example I write for the alto saxes 1 and 2 but they sound exactly the same because I own the Vienna Alto Sax which is 1 sound and here's the problem, when the two voices go to unison, the waves are exactly the same so it won't take it as an "ensamble sound" it will instead cause a phase cancellation or something like that right? Same thing would happen it I get the Clarinets and I want to write for Clarinet 1, 2 and 3 already knowing that in a concert band, there are more than one player in one stand, so I will have to set a Vienna Clarinet Ensemble sound to each part. Here there are two problems, the first one is that I will have a 3 players ensemble sound in the clarinet ens. sound in Vienna, and I need a 2 ens. sound for each part... the second problem is that when the 3 parts goes to unison, it won't be heard as an "ensemble of ensembles" it will instead be heard as one big clarinet ensemble sounding the same, so loud and probably with phase cancellation included. I'm not a technician at all but I just afraid that this can happen in my mix and not to be able to hear the right instrument levels and balance that I write for.
So what can I do to solve these two problems? What should I do or change? and, is it possible to get a "2 clarinet ensemble sound" mixing 2 solo clarinet sounds in some way? What would you advise me in this regarding?
Hope you understand what I mean...
Thank's in advance for your very appreciatted help!
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About creating your own ensemble instruments and other stuff...
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Hi jazzangeleyes,
if you are using one instrument to play 2 players, you should always pick different articulations, especially if you play unison. You should also position them cleverly "on stage", best with a power pan.
We offer "only" a 3 clarinet player ensemble - you have to decide whether this is giving you the sound you need or whether you want to play around with 2 single instruments - I personally wouldn´t worry too much here.
My advice is to look at the 2 or 3 players as players with different sounds and personalities - record each player as a separate musician, take care of the panning in the mix and you should be fine.
Best,
Paul
Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL -
What Paul said is some really good advice but in addition, if two players absolutely have to play the exact same notes in the exact same octave, highlight one or the other player's notes in your sequencer, and slightly move them left or right so that they are not exactly in unison. Maybe only off by miliseconds. Also, you could detune one or the other player by one or two Hz. you do that in the Perform view under the master tune.
I don't own saxophones but I know that this method works pretty well for strings.
"Good Luck, we're all counting on you."
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Thank's a lot! for your quick answers! Great help here!. I could use them in logic but, since I don't want to drop all the entire midi thing to the Finale, I am setting them up in Finale directly and as far as I know, the sounds cannot be moved slightly in Finale when you write exactly the same notes. I can try to pan the 2 clarinets and give them a slightly different reverb, detunning... also maybe changing a little (almost nothing) of EQ to one of them and see what happens, but what really worries me is the fact that I cannot slightly move de samples start by miliseconds since I'm in Finale... I will give it a try tomorrow and will comment what happens... Thank's a lot again for your help!
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@jasensmith said:
What Paul said is some really good advice but in addition, if two players absolutely have to play the exact same notes in the exact same octave, highlight one or the other player's notes in your sequencer, and slightly move them left or right so that they are not exactly in unison. Maybe only off by miliseconds. Also, you could detune one or the other player by one or two Hz. you do that in the Perform view under the master tune.
I don't own saxophones but I know that this method works pretty well for strings.
"Good Luck, we're all counting on you."
detuning them with the master tune is troublesome when it comes to wind instruments. i once tried it and had nothing but phasing issues. the better solution is detune with pitchbend. set the maximum range only to 10 cents or something like this and the result will be better.
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@DG said:
If you are getting phasing between two instruments, you can transpose one of them a semi-tone up or down, and then use the Pitch Wheel to correct it. That way you won't be hearing the same samples from both players.
DG
That's a handy little trick I didn't even consider, DG. Thank you for that.
