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Books on orchestration
Last post Tue, Mar 02 2010 by Dar32, 21 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Nov 27 2009 12:06
by Fred
Joined on Thu, Jul 26 2007, Trondheim, Norway, Posts 79

Hi,

I have been playing the trombone for 14 years, but I have never been specially good with the theory behind the notes.

(Only what positions each note translates into). 

Thanks! 

Fred

Mac Pro Octacore (2x2.8) 10GB - MacbookPro 2.2/4GB - Motu 828Mk2 - Presonus M80 - LiquidMix 32 - Cubase 7 - Vienna SE Extended+Epic Horns - VEPro5 - VI Pro
Posted on Fri, Nov 27 2009 14:36
by matteo
Joined on Mon, Apr 07 2008, Switzerland, Posts 56

Samuel Adler, Study of Orchestration. Book + CD + Workbook. 

Vienna SE Plus Extended, Appassionata Strings I, Woodwinds I, Brass I, Saxophones, Fanfare Trumpets, Flügelhorn, Solo Voices, Konzerthaus Orgel – MIRx, VIP – iMac 27" Intel Core i7 40 GB RAM
Posted on Fri, Nov 27 2009 20:32
by Fred
Joined on Thu, Jul 26 2007, Trondheim, Norway, Posts 79

Thanks, matteo. I have heard others recommend it. I think I'll go for it! However, I was only able to find the paperback. The CD version was audiobook (that's what i said). I guess I have to look some more 

Mac Pro Octacore (2x2.8) 10GB - MacbookPro 2.2/4GB - Motu 828Mk2 - Presonus M80 - LiquidMix 32 - Cubase 7 - Vienna SE Extended+Epic Horns - VEPro5 - VI Pro
Posted on Mon, Nov 30 2009 18:08
by aural
Joined on Sun, Nov 02 2008, Berlin, Posts 170

there´s also a book by rimsky-korsakov on orchestration, which is really very good.

concerning books on music-theory:

that is a very difficult issue. most books (even the good ones) just touch the surface of the subject. it really depends a lot on the style you want to write in. If you want to learn about Debussy´s style for example, it is of no use to get a book about how to write a fugue in the style of bach.

it´s important at first to sort of find out what music you are interested in and then get a book that deals with the theory behind that specific style. if you get a book that tries to give an "overview", you will sort of get an overview, but also learn many things that are false, because such books are generalizing quite a lot.

MacBook Pro 2GHz, i7 | OSX 10.6.8 | 8 GB RAM | Cubase 6.0.4 | Chamber Strings I+II Full | VSL Special Edition Bundle Standard | DL-Products: Flute, Oboe, Clarinet in Bb, Bassoon, Trumpet in C, Horn, Trombone | Vienna Suite
Posted on Mon, Nov 30 2009 19:11
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 281

Peter Alexander writes some good "Professional Orchestration" books. Available as PDF or paperback at his site, truespec.com. Very thorough with a ton of score examples of instruments in various ranges. I have books 1, 2A and 2B. 

Posted on Tue, Dec 01 2009 01:47
by ljsviolin
Joined on Thu, Mar 12 2009, Posts 28

Fred,

The Rimsky-Korsakov book is available free on-line at the IMSLP web site:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Principles_of_Orchestration_%28Rimsky-Korsakov,_Nikolai%29

Alse Berlioz' "Treatise on Instrumentation" is there:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Treatise_on_Instrumentation_%28Berlioz,_Hector%29

The books are older but stll good. 

#####################################

A competitor of VSL (and if I'm out of line here, please let me know, VSL folks) has the Rimsky-Korsakov book up on-line with audio examples, using their product, I think:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=77

#####################################

I hope this helps.  I found the Adler book to be very good; I just wish I had the audio CDs to go with it, to listen to the examples.

Larry Samuels

Reaper Vienna Suite 1.1 Vienna Ensemble 2 SE SE Plus Solo Strings Orchestral Strings
Posted on Tue, Dec 01 2009 14:29
by Fred
Joined on Thu, Jul 26 2007, Trondheim, Norway, Posts 79

Thank you :)

Mac Pro Octacore (2x2.8) 10GB - MacbookPro 2.2/4GB - Motu 828Mk2 - Presonus M80 - LiquidMix 32 - Cubase 7 - Vienna SE Extended+Epic Horns - VEPro5 - VI Pro
Posted on Thu, Dec 03 2009 21:55
by matteo
Joined on Mon, Apr 07 2008, Switzerland, Posts 56

There's a beautiful book (Harmony): Diether De La Motte, Harmonielehre, but I think it is not translated in english. The original is german, I read it in italian.

Vienna SE Plus Extended, Appassionata Strings I, Woodwinds I, Brass I, Saxophones, Fanfare Trumpets, Flügelhorn, Solo Voices, Konzerthaus Orgel – MIRx, VIP – iMac 27" Intel Core i7 40 GB RAM
Posted on Mon, Dec 07 2009 11:04
by Maya
Joined on Tue, Nov 25 2003, Vienna/Europe, Posts 841

This one is also recommendable:

"The guide to MIDI orchestration" by Paul Gilreath -> http://www.amazon.com/Gu...l-Gilreath/dp/0964670534

/Regards,

/Maya - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Dec 21 2009 05:32
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 281

Check out this Youtube series, very good info! 

OrchestrationOnline

Posted on Mon, Dec 21 2009 06:14
by lenersen
Joined on Wed, Feb 28 2007, Helsinki, Posts 41

Books will teach you the basics of instruments and combinations. Here are two practical exercises after that:

1. Read full orchestral scores as much as you can. With and without audio.

2. Take a score that you like and reverse-orchestrate it, ie. turn it into a piano score

Posted on Fri, Dec 25 2009 03:43
by Vaikus
Joined on Wed, Aug 29 2007, Posts 5
Maya wrote:

This one is also recommendable:

"The guide to MIDI orchestration" by Paul Gilreath -> http://www.amazon.com/Gu...l-Gilreath/dp/0964670534

/Regards,

Regarding the book "The Guide to MIDI Orchestration" I would advice to
wait, that edition is more than five years old and It seems that the
author, Paul Gilreath, is already working on a new edition (4th) to be published around March 2010 by Focal Press:

http://www.focalpress.co...&cat=166&sub=172

Abraham
Posted on Fri, Dec 25 2009 17:38
by rverne10
Joined on Tue, May 26 2009, Michigan, USA, Posts 136































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For the theory part I'll recommend the route I took and give what I hope are useful comments. .....................



1. Rudiments of Music (3rd Edition) (Paperback) by Robert W. Ottman - - - - available for fairly low price in good used condition http://www.amazon.com/gp...olid=&condition=used



      What I like about this book is the way it
brings you face to face with the busy work of calculating intervals, the manifold
nature of the circle of keys and all the pedagogical delights that make you
aware of how much you don't know about reading music. This is a necessary first
stop before moving on to bigger and better stuff. Word of caution about this
particular book and all such books; take from them what you can and don't allow
yourself to be bogged in their endless detail. Again, this is book (or at least
the materials in it ) are an absolute requirement to being able to move on to
learning good reading skills; there's another assumption in all of this study
that is not clearly stated-you really have to practice this stuff at a
keyboard-Western music is keyboard centric and this underlying assumption is almost tyrannical in how the teaching of theory is carried out. 


2. Elementary Harmony: Theory and Practice by Robert W. Ottman http://www.amazon.com/gp...e=UTF8&condition=all



You will want to avoid the early editions of this book, the link is to the
third edition and that's pretty good. Again, do not ( I can't emphasize this
enough) let yourself get bogged in all of the details, try to pick out the main points. That is the key to any learning material but especially here.



 3. Advanced Harmony, Theory and
Practice (Paperback) ~ Robert W. Ottman_http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/013006016X/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used



Keep plugging away and this book will be your reward-some really fun stuff about music emerges at this point such as diatonic sequences.



The Ottman theory books are limited in their discussion on defining voice
leading and counterpoint. . To get some all around discussion that encompasses theory in light of voice leading and counterpoint you could try these



4. Harmony and Voice Leading (2nd Edition) (Hardcover) ~ Edward Aldwell
(Author), Carl Schachter (Author) http://www.amazon.com/gp...e=UTF8&condition=all



Beware-this book moves fast and deep, again Ottman's Rudiments may bring you
up to speed for this but at least get your feet wet first with Ottman's elementary harmony and then try Aldwell's book to move on to a higher level.



5 .The Complete Musician: An Integrated Approach to Tonal Theory, Analysis,
and Listening ISBN-10: 0195095677_ http://www.amazon.com/Co...qid=1261761483&sr=1-



 Includes some of the best features of Ottman's style with Aldwell's- digs deep but worth the effort



All of this is about 4 part writing-ironically there are ton's of examples
in any church hymnal of the major Protestant denominations- Methodist, Lutheran
and Presbyterian are the ones I know about. Then there's the proverbial Bach
(JS) Chorales -here's a CD with the sheet musice- PDF format- to print off of your home computer http://www.sheetmusicplu...ur-Part-Chorales/2401979


 




 

Cubase 12, Windows 10 Installed on ‎4/‎11/‎2022
OS build 19044.1645, VE Pro (build 7.2.1481) Vienna Instruments Pro 2.0 (v 2.6.110) Universal Audio Apollo Twin, M-Audio Oxygen 88 keyboard controller, USB connection, NVIDA GeForce GTX 1600 Ti Display adapter, Intel i7-8700K CPU @3.70 GHz, 32 GB RAM Total Physical Memory
Posted on Wed, Jan 06 2010 15:22
by Manuel.Roesler
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2009, Berlin, Posts 19
lenersen wrote:

Books will teach you the basics of instruments and combinations. Here are two practical exercises after that:

 

1. Read full orchestral scores as much as you can. With and without audio.

2. Take a score that you like and reverse-orchestrate it, ie. turn it into a piano score



I would like to add the suggestion: just copy scores by hand - or with your notation software.

I started copying i.e. Wagner or Mendelssohn when I was a teenager and it taught me how to handle orchestral colours. My first "handwritten" score was the prelude to Lohengrin by Wagner and I learned from it how to handle three-part woodwinds or divisi string parts.
Posted on Thu, Jan 07 2010 17:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

These are good ideas here.  I agree on copying scores.  Also, going beyond copying and trying as uncompromisingly as possible to do a completely realistic performance with samples on an instrument-by-instrument basis.  It is perhaps the best score study you could do, as you are absolutely forced to delve into each part separately, and then in combination with the others, in the smallest detail.  When I did the "Mars" demo it was somewhat nightmarish, the amount of detail involved. But it was worth it to be forced into such close study of great music.  I shudder to think of the amount of work Jay Bacal had doing Rite of Spring, but he has learned firsthand an enormous amount about Stravinsky's scoring, and what could be better than that?  Well, maybe sitting on a beach with a Mai-tai.  

Posted on Sat, Jan 09 2010 04:50
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 281

Yes, copying scores and transposing them to concert pitch is very valuable for study. You also get quicker at transposing and reading stupid alto clef! :) Plus you look up "what the heck does that mean" when you run across something foreign. 

Posted on Sat, Jan 09 2010 11:11
by Manuel.Roesler
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2009, Berlin, Posts 19
And may I add: Playing in an orchestra or singing in a good concert choir would help very much. I used to play trombone in younger years and later singing tenor in some Early Music Ensembles and also big choirs. Both did serve me well as I could watch other instruments and their players and how it all works together.
I can remember playing 2nd trombone in Elgar's Cello Concerto at the age of 17 and how I was impressed by all the sounds (i.e. how perfectly horns and clarinets would blend in the first movement or how stressful it would be for the viola section to get the main theme right). Same goes for singing: I do remember singing "Gurrelieder" in Munich or "Mahler 2nd" in Bamberg, having the actual score with me and being placed right behind the brass section. Wow - that really taught me how to use an orchestra in a clever way. And: what to steal. ;-)
For german-speaking users I'd like to recommend a book on orchestration that has become some sort of standard on the issue:
"Handbuch der Instrumentationspraxis" by Ertugrul Sevsay. Just read the reviews on amazon.com - I don't know, if it has been translated into english?
Posted on Sun, Jan 10 2010 15:50
by guyri
Joined on Tue, Feb 24 2009, Posts 7
I'd just like to thank the person who recommended "Harmony and Voice Leading" by Edward Aldwell. I have obtained a copy and it really is excellent.
Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2010 04:57
by rverne10
Joined on Tue, May 26 2009, Michigan, USA, Posts 136
Glad I could assist, sometimes research pays off!

ray
Cubase 12, Windows 10 Installed on ‎4/‎11/‎2022
OS build 19044.1645, VE Pro (build 7.2.1481) Vienna Instruments Pro 2.0 (v 2.6.110) Universal Audio Apollo Twin, M-Audio Oxygen 88 keyboard controller, USB connection, NVIDA GeForce GTX 1600 Ti Display adapter, Intel i7-8700K CPU @3.70 GHz, 32 GB RAM Total Physical Memory
Posted on Sat, Feb 27 2010 22:28
by Peter Alexander
Joined on Wed, Aug 21 2002, Virginia, Posts 642

The Professional Orchestration Series. Consider the Home Study Bundles.

http://alexanderpublishing.com/Departments/Professional-Orchestration.aspx

Peter L. Alexander
Author, Professional Orchestration Series
www.soniccontrol.tv
www.alexanderpublishing.com
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