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  3. Suitable computer specs?

  • Suitable computer specs?

    M
    M

    I'm considering buying a new computer to replace my existing setup, and I think I've found one at a (just) affordable price that will be suitable for me to use mainly with my VSL stuff. That's VSL SE+ with occasional help from some of the Horizon libraries I have licensed, as well as occasional use of Garritan Orchestral Strings, Moog Modular V, that dreadful Symphonic Choirs thing I wish I'd never bought, and Vocaloid Prima - not that I've mastered it yet!

    I use Sonar 7 PE and Sibelius 6. 

    I've no plans to use MIR in the foreseeable future, but wouldn't rule it out altogether one of these days. At present I use Altiverb and will continue to do so for a while. I do plan to extend my SE+ with the occasional VSL download instrument. 

    I know my question is a bit like "how long is a piece of string" in some ways, but I'd like to know roughly whether the spec of the computer is suitable for use with my setup - (Large orchestral setups) I don't want to waste this kind of money on something that won't do the job. I think it may be 'overkill' in some ways, but I like the idea of having plenty of headroom and as much future proofing as possible (I know that's the Holy Grail though!) Having said that, I'm not sure whether it's suitable!

    The specs are below but the soundcard I'd like to use is one of two M-Audio Delta 44s I already have instead of one that comes as standard), and I'd obviously install that myself.

    Intel Core i7 Processor Extreme Edition i7-975 (3.33GHz) 6.4GTs/8MB Cache

    Asus P6T Deluxe V2: DDR 3, SLI & CrossfireX on demand

    12 GB Corsair XMS3 TRI DDR3 1333MHz

    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit

    8x USB 2 ports

    4 x 1TB Hard Drives S-ATA 3-Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM (one of which would be used as a system backup)

    (No Raid) (Unless someone suggests it's necessary)

    1GB ATI RADEON HD 5750 PCI Express - DirectX 11 Graphics Card

    Sound Card 

    Onboard 10/100/1000 Gigabit LAN port

    Card Reader

    Any advice as to whether this is a feasible setup would be much appreciated. 
    Thanks,
    John
  • H
    H

    Hi John,

    Exactly how large is "large orchestral setups"?

    I'm asking because, if possible, you might want to consider switching out the expensive Core i7-975 with the much cheaper Core i7-920. Then when time comes and you need more CPU-power, simply switch out the i7-920 with the new Core i7 CPU that is expected to hit the streets this spring (Core i7 980X aka Core i9 aka Gulftown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulftown_(microprocessor))

    Asus have announced which of their motherboards that will support this new CPU, and P6T Deluxe V2 is among them, so all should be fine for the plan above (http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=kolMcWopQ5KqVKht)

    Either way, unless you want to go for a dual CPU pc, I think the system you have listed is pretty much the best available right now.

    Best regards,

    Henrik 

    PS. Here are some threads where MIR and CPU performance is mentioned:

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/23308.aspx

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/23924.aspx

  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    well choosen configuration, though the W7 professional version will do (unless you need any features from the ultimate).

    be aware that 6 x 2 GB will run at 1066, whereas 3 x 4 GB run at 1333 memory bus frequency.

    we have a delta 1010 LT in a W7 64bit machine at our fullest convenience.

    btw: loading each and every sample (what you never will do of course) from the SE bundle full library takes about 7 GB memory, so it appears there is more than enough headroom left for the other libraries you mentioned.

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • M
    M

    Hi Henrik,

    Many thanks for your reply to my question. Large orchestra means normal 'Symphony orchestra size' in general terms and I'm more than satisfied with my VSL SE library for 99.999% of what I do, and the 'plus' version samples give me more or less everything else I need on top. I'm grateful for the information you gave me there, and the links too, which I've had a look at. 

    I think I'll probably go with the spec that I mentioned though, because it seems it will comfortably do everything I could want it to do in the foreseeable future, and I don't think I could really justify the extra cost that would be involved in buying an i7- 920 then changing it for an i7-980X at a later date. I pretty sure I'll never get near needing that kind of power. 

    I'll have a long hard think before I commit myself though just in case.

    Once again, many thanks for taking the trouble to advise me of the possible options.

    Regards,

    John
  • M
    M

    Hi Christian,

    And many thanks to you too for coming back to my question with your advice.

    First of all, thanks for pointing out the fact that I don't need W7 Ultimate version - I hadn't noticed that I'd selected - that will save me a few pounds!!

    The rest of what you say is very helpful too in helping me decide which way to go.

    Would you mind just explaining the consequences of 6x2GB of memory running at 1066 as opposed to 3x4GB running at the bus frequency?

    I'm not sure that the supplier I'm thinking of buying from offers the 3x4GB as an option - and I'm not sure what that would do the the (just) affordable price if he does! Would it have a major impact on performance to go for 6x2GB?

    Many thanks and best regards,

    John
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    when it comes to many instruments (say > 30) / low latency (<256) / more than 2 channels (eg. 5.1) memory bus frequency counts, especially for the latter.

    i just did a quick compare for kingston hyperX XMP ram (3 x 2 GB = 200 EUR, 3 x 4 GB = 800 EUR)

    having 3 x 4 GB will leave space for another 3 x 4 GB if needed

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • M
    M
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    @cm said:

    when it comes to many instruments (say > 30) / low latency (<256) / more than 2 channels (eg. 5.1) memory bus frequency counts, especially for the latter.

    i just did a quick compare for kingston hyperX XMP ram (3 x 2 GB = 200 EUR, 3 x 4 GB = 800 EUR)

    having 3 x 4 GB will leave space for another 3 x 4 GB if needed

    christian

     

     Thanks once again Christian. I'm sure I can operate OK within those limits (at an extra 600 EUR I think I'll have to!)

    It was very good of you to go to the trouble of comparing the costs for me - much appreciated.

    Now i'll just prepare myself for the frustration of moving everything to a new machine,,, don't be surprised if I'm back then asking for technical assistance!

    I've got to say though, notwithstanding the odd technical hole in my knowledge, the product is magnificent and something that only a relatively few years ago would have only been a distant dream that I would have thought would never have been attainable!

    Once again many thanks,

    Best regards,

    John.
  • M
    M

    I ordered the computer that I described at the top of this thread and it's now arrived. I'm really pleased with it and can't wait  to get going on it.

    However - I didn't foresee 2 problems which have now ground me to a halt, and I'm looking to see if anyone here can advise me on a way forward (bearing in mind I've virtually crippled myself financially buying the system in the 1st place!).

    1. Main problem: My CME UF8 keyboard. No 64 bit driver available. The keyboard was superseded after I bought mine and the cheapskate company seem to be concentrating on the newer models. The problem is made worse in that I can't use my M-Audio Midisport 4x4 or my Midisport 2x2 to connect the keyboard because M-Audio haven't come up with a driver for that either (and no date set for when one will be available!) I do have an M-Audio Axiom 25 keyboard - but same problem there - no  64 bit driver!

    I don't want to revert to XP 32 bit as I won't be able to access my 12Gb memory (one of the reasons for upgrading in the first place)

    Anyone else had this problem and found a solution? (without the expense of buying a new controller keyboard).

    Second problem - I didn't realise that Altiverb 6 wouldn't run on a 64bit system. I suppose I could upgrade to Altiverb 7 when that's out as long as it's affordable.

    As ever, any helpful (but affordable) advice would be gratefully received.

    Thanks,

    John
  • D
    D
    1.  Check that the Midisport doesn't work before you write it off. If it doesn't then you will need to buy a new MIDI interface. Once you have one, you can connect the CME via that, or even via the MIDI input (if any) on your soundcard.
    2. Altiverb will run on a 64bit OS, it's just that it won't run hosted in a 64bit sequencer. The answer is simple. J-Bridge.

    DG
  • M
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    @DG said:

    1.  Check that the Midisport doesn't work before you write it off. If it doesn't then you will need to buy a new MIDI interface. Once you have one, you can connect the CME via that, or even via the MIDI input (if any) on your soundcard.
    2. Altiverb will run on a 64bit OS, it's just that it won't run hosted in a 64bit sequencer. The answer is simple. J-Bridge.

    DG

    Thanks for your reply DG. 

    I've tried both of my midisports (2x2 & 4x4) and unfortunately neither of them are recognised, and my Delta 44 soundcard doesn't have a MIDI input.

    I'm a little nervous of finding a compatible interface too. I thought one of the E-mu ones (such as the XMIDI 2x2) may be OK - especially when on the E-mu website there is a downloadable driver apparently for Windows 7 32 and 64 bit, but on looking at their support page they say the following: -

    With regard to Windows 7 drivers and support for E-MU products: 

    We currently do not have specific Windows 7 support or a Windows 7 driver release for E-MU products at this time. Our preliminary testing shows that our Vista drivers when used with Windows 7 perform as well as they do under Windows Vista for most users. You can download and install our Windows Vista drivers from our website. We are keeping a log of known issues specific to Windows 7. We do not have an official release date, but are tracking the issues closely and will notify our users via our newsletter and website as soon as we commit to a new release.

    And that's in spite of the following on their download page:-

    ++Link to driver++

    Date: 1/29/2010
    Size: 3.77 MB

    This is the Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit compatible device driver for the E-MU Xmidi 1x1, Xmidi 1x1 Tab and Xmidi 2x2 products. 

    NOTE: This driver is only for PCs running a supported version of Windows. The E-MU Xmidi products are compatible with Mac OS X's native CoreMIDI drivers and requires no drivers from E-MU.

    It's a real pity all of this - I don't know about anyone else, but my confidence in what I can trust (in terms of hardware - NOT VSL!) is severely damaged.

    In the meantime I have a brand new system that I can't even test properly because 3 pieces of relatively new gear have been rendered useless.

    If you know of a midi controller that definitely works, and is cheap enough to be considered a temporary solution until either CME provide an updated driver or M-Audio do the same for the Midisports, I'd be really grateful to hear of it.

    Thanks for the advice about J-Bridge.

    Thanks again,

    John
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    out of curiosity i just plugged in ny old and cheap M-Audio MidiSport Uno USB-to-MIDI device on a W7 x64 system and - voilá here it is without any driver installation.

    hth, christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • D
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    @cm said:

    out of curiosity i just plugged in ny old and cheap M-Audio MidiSport Uno USB-to-MIDI device on a W7 x64 system and - voilá here it is without any driver installation.

    hth, christian

     

    Christian, I think the problem is a question of "how old?". AFAIK the 4x4 Midisports don't work, but the 4x4 Anniversary Midisports do. I can't test my 4x4 out because although my W7 PC should have arrived yesterday, the courier has "lost" it. When (if) it eventually arrives I'll test my even older 4x4 Midisport. [:(]

    DG
  • M
    M

     Is altiverb working in jbridge under windows 7? Some time ago, I could not get it to work with Windows 7/jbridge.

    Mahlon
  • M
    M
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    @cm said:

    out of curiosity i just plugged in ny old and cheap M-Audio MidiSport Uno USB-to-MIDI device on a W7 x64 system and - voilá here it is without any driver installation.

    hth, christian

    The plot thickens! A look at the M-Audio drivers page shows no driver for Windows 7 64 bit. It does show a driver for Vista 64 bit.

    Which driver did you install for the Uno Christian? 

    The whole compatibility issue seems very hit and miss. Such statements as 'works on some installations' that I've read while researching this don't exactly inspire confidence.

    I emailed Jesper Wilfing, a Swedish man who rewrote the CME UF8 driver for WIndows 7 (but sadly only the 32 bit version so far) to see if he'd managed to work out the same for 64 bit version and he hasn't been able to yet. He did say that it only took him an hour to do the one for 32 bit Windows 7 though.

    Here's what he said, "I am very sad to say that it isn't possible to my knowledge to get it running on ny 64-bit system. As soon as I find a solution I will be sure to make a good setup package and post it on the page. Thanks anyway for letting me know about the page problem. It has now been corrected!

    Thanks and let me know if you find a solution! Me to thinks CME is lazy pigs!! It took me like an hour to create the setup package on this page, but they wer too lazy to do it..."

    I think it's somewhat more sinister than laziness - I really think it's a misguided attempt to get people to buy one of their newer versions - but I wouldn't touch anything of theirs again with a bargepole! The only reason I want to keep my present UF8 is purely because it cost a lot of money and I don't want to incur that kind of cost again. If I did it certainly wouldn't be with CME. I emailed their UK importers this morning to ask for their assistance and guess what?.... No reply!

    If anyone needs this particular unofficial driver, (which seems to have pleased many people) - it's available here:

    http://cme.wilfing.se/

    It doesn't work on my 64 bit system though.
  • M
    M
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    @cm said:

    out of curiosity i just plugged in ny old and cheap M-Audio MidiSport Uno USB-to-MIDI device on a W7 x64 system and - voilá here it is without any driver installation.

    hth, christian

     

    Christian, I think the problem is a question of "how old?". AFAIK the 4x4 Midisports don't work, but the 4x4 Anniversary Midisports do. I can't test my 4x4 out because although my W7 PC should have arrived yesterday, the courier has "lost" it. When (if) it eventually arrives I'll test my even older 4x4 Midisport.

    DG

    Sorry to hear of the loss of your machine - that's terrible! I hope it turns up quickly. 

    I'm sure it will - and I hope you don't find some of your other equipment is redundant like mine!!

    Regards,

    John
  • D
    D
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    @cm said:

    out of curiosity i just plugged in ny old and cheap M-Audio MidiSport Uno USB-to-MIDI device on a W7 x64 system and - voilá here it is without any driver installation.

    hth, christian

     

    Christian, I think the problem is a question of "how old?". AFAIK the 4x4 Midisports don't work, but the 4x4 Anniversary Midisports do. I can't test my 4x4 out because although my W7 PC should have arrived yesterday, the courier has "lost" it. When (if) it eventually arrives I'll test my even older 4x4 Midisport.

    DG

    Sorry to hear of the loss of your machine - that's terrible! I hope it turns up quickly. 

    I'm sure it will - and I hope you don't find some of your other equipment is redundant like mine!!

    Regards,

    John

     

    Hah, well they've found the machine. The stupid couriers returned it to whence it came. So we have to go through it all again.

    I think I have enough spare junk to make everything work, but I wouldn't be surprised if I have to cannibalise the other studio. [:(]

    DG
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    @mistersynth said:

    ... shows no driver for Windows 7 64 bit. It does show a driver for Vista 64 bit.

    Which driver did you install for the Uno Christian?

    i think the secret is, that the uno doesn't require a (device specific) driver - it is recognized as *class compliant* USB midi device http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/060424_Uno_UG_EN01.pdf

     

    from my experience vista64 drivers often work - watch out for notes like *requires vista 64 SP1* (some kernel components have changed from the original vista to vista with SP1) to inrease the chance the drivers will work.

    hth, christian

     

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • M
    M

    Thanks Christian. I couldn't get hold of a Uno so after a chat with a supplier, he suggested a E-MU 1x1 as a 'class compiant' device, so I shoud receive it tomorrow. If you don't hear any howls of anguish coming from the general direction of England before the end of Friday, then you'll know it works!

    Thanks for your help!

    John

    DG Did your new all-singing all-dancing monster workstation arrive? fingers crossed!
  • D
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    @mistersynth said:

    DG Did your new all-singing all-dancing monster workstation arrive? fingers crossed!

     

     It's supposed to arrive tomorrow morning. If it doesn't, I think I'll join you with the howls of anguish. [:@]

    DG
  • M
    M
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    @DG said:

     It's supposed to arrive tomorrow morning. If it doesn't, I think I'll join you with the howls of anguish.

    DG

    We'll have to record them, map them and market the package as a Library for tragi-horror film soundtracks - of course it should also include the sound of the slow beheading [6] of certain couriers, certain keyboard manufacturers and a certain Mmmmm-Audio product company ... no names mentioned [;)] 

    John