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VE Pro and Logic and the curse of 1 core overloading
Last post Fri, Aug 23 2013 by treia, 33 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Aug 11 2010 06:44
by bobulusbillman
Joined on Mon, Jul 09 2007, Posts 79

Hi,

I have set up VE Pro and Logic 9 on the same computer. Mac Pro 8 Core OS X 10.6.

I have a problem where in the Logic CPU meter only 1 core out of the 8 available is being used. This one core will overload and Logic will stop playback despite 7 cores sitting there idling.

However in Activity Monitor VE Pro is shown to be using around 200% - 350% CPU (i.e. 2-4 cores). So VE Pro is obviously multi threading across the cores properly. What I don't understand is that before I started using VE Pro exclusively in Logic the balancing of CPU across cores in Logic was much more efficient. Perhaps the way VE Pro pipes audio back into Logic is causing these overloads on one core?

I've read all the knowledge base articles on the Apple website regarding multi core optimisation in Logic but none of their tips have made any real impact!

VSL developers: is this a phenomenom you have noticed when using large VE Pro templates in Logic? (15GB of samples loaded in VE Pro)

Windows users: is this something that you notice on Windows 7 with Cubase 5 64bit?

Is it a problem with the way OS X multi threading works?

Any solutions in the pipeline perhaps? 

Posted on Wed, Aug 11 2010 07:50
by jammusique
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Paris, France, Posts 258

Most Logic users I know (including myself) have this problem. I actually found that VE Pro works better that individual VI instances in Logic. It's still a mystery as to where the problem is (Logic, OSX, CPU, plugs, etc.) 

WW complete. MirX Teldex, Cubase, PC
Posted on Wed, Aug 11 2010 10:52
by nicowieditz
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2006, GERMANY, Posts 70

I had the same problem, but I am using Logic 9.1.1 in 64bit and VEPro 64bit, all 8 cores are being used in Logic. Ok, the first core seems to go overloaded several times, but I think that this problem will be quite solved when VI Pro is being released. They optimize their software with each update, obviously. Everything what I did was to use both DAW's in 64bit and switched on the internal FIREWALL of Snow leopard. After updating to Safari 5.0 I found out that Safari got a big speed down, so I checked the system and saw that only the firewall could solve the problem because Snow Leopard was fully opened in network backdoors after 10.6.4. I am also working with an 8-core Pro with 32 GB RAM.

Try to switch on the firewall under security settings and see that the multithread tasking works better.

Give us an update here, please.

Logic X / Mac Pro / 12-core / 96 GB RAM / 6 TB SSD / 12 TB HDD / Mac OSX.XIV
Posted on Fri, Aug 13 2010 00:36
by igor
Joined on Mon, Jul 31 2006, California, Posts 25

I'm still having this prob, big time.  Mind you, I'm loading up over 5 GB of Kontakt into my VEP 64 (along with another gig on VEP 32 for Play and other stuff)... but still, it shouldn't be behaving like this.

Posted on Wed, Nov 03 2010 17:30
by FilmCompos3r
Joined on Fri, Mar 26 2010, Posts 36
Also having this problem, Logic 8.1. Waiting on 9 to arrive in the mail (just switched off of Pro Tools). Generally performance is solid and stable, but yes, constant System Overloads due to 2-4 threads happening and 12-14 threads sitting idle while using V Ens Pro in Logic.

Clearly Logic is not sharing the load of the VEP AU plugin input properly.
Posted on Wed, Nov 03 2010 23:48
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

Hello

Did you read those :

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/27029/177079.aspx#177079

if that does not help you can use VE PRO SERVER (I had the same problem and that solved it)

Best

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Nov 05 2010 21:21
by composer87
Joined on Fri, May 29 2009, Posts 6
Hi Igor, This might pertain to you as you're running Kontakt.

We've noticed that having multiple outputs enabled inside logic (aux on the plugin instance of VE Pro) seems to throw all that processing on 1 single core. So if your running a big orchestral template and 10 or 15 instances of VE pro coming into Logic and using Multi Outputs, you can start to see 1 processor (usually 7 in an 8 core machine) creep up there.
Posted on Sun, Dec 19 2010 10:15
by Tomas San Miguel
Joined on Fri, Mar 28 2008, Madrid, Posts 16

here was my question to VSL and the answer I got, just in case it helps anybody to figure out what is going on with  Apple and their Logic pro developers. 

I must say that since then and after been a Logic user for years I am testing Cubase and Protools for a better audio engine overlan eficiency. Read carefully my question to VSL and their answer:

<----------------------------------------

Hello
Working in Logic pro on a big orquestral template using several VE-pros instances overlan in the same mac pro, I notice that in my 12 core new Mac pro only the last core is being used and often as the session grows Logic stops and I get the test message: "System overload. Audio engine can not process in time the data..."I tested the same orchestral example as in above situation but this time opening each track with a  VI-pro instrument directly in Logic pro (without Ve-pro) and the result is that all the cores in my mac pro are being evenly used as it should be.
So now I ask myself why is this happening, and what sense does it make then to use a orch. template with many VE-pros overlan in a 12 core mac pro if only one core is being used waisting this way the power of my 12 core mac?I have tried all kind of solutions to arrive to the conclusion that maybe using VEpro in a multicore system doen´t work out and maybe is better go to the one VIpro by track solution in Logic pro for a better use of the compùter power processing.Please I need some serious technical advice about this. I am working in a professional situation here in my studio and I need to run lots of Vienna and Kontakt instances to accomplish my large orchestral film projects. I have spent many hours creating a template with more than 200 tracks, including group buses etc and now I see that all of it may have been a waist of time. Is hard for me to believe that VEpro can not use all the cores of my mac pro:(------------------------Please read all my tech stuff:Logic Pro (64 bits)preferences buffer: 1024 for Playback, 256 for midi imput. each VE-pro is a 16 track multinstrument. I use in Logic thr midi multinstrument for the midi tracks in the organize window  and aux tracks in the mixer for the audio returns from the  VE-pro server.VE-pro (64 bits) server preferencesmultiprocessing: 2 threads per instance (I also tryed out with 1 thread, 4 threads etc without noticing any chanches)
Mac Pro 2 x 2.93 Ghz 6 core intel Xeon32 Gb RAM
OSX Snow Leopard 10.6.4
RME PCI HDSPe AIO audio card
SATA 64 bit cache internal RAID  Drives holding the Libraries.
SATA external  Drives holding the sessions and video.
VEpro v. 7349
VI pro v. 7349
Logic pro 9.1.3
Sibelius 6.2
bestTomás San Miguelwww.musimagic.com<http://www.musimagic.com>______________________________________________________VSL´s ANSWER HERE:::::::::::::
Hi,

there are some flaws in Logics audio engine, most notably being:

- Forces processing of all outputs from multi-output instruments to a single core.
- Forces processing of any send chains from these channels to a single core

Combine the above, and you may end up with the scenario you describe. For whatever reason, Logic behaves better when no Aux outputs from the AU's are being used. Then it can spread the load of processing onto several cores. Thus, my suggestion to you would be to use only stereo returns from each VE Pro instance, mixing inside the VE Pro mixer - which has a properly multithreaded audio engine.

We have not experienced this behavior with any other hosts.


Thanks,

Martin Saleteg
Software Developer

Posted on Sun, Dec 19 2010 15:13
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

I had the same problem with an 8 core Macpro (the 8the core was going on overload, the other where around 10/15 %)

I solve it using VE PRO server

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Sun, Dec 19 2010 20:27
by jammusique
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Paris, France, Posts 258

I found that excluding all 32 bit plugs (thus non 32 bit bridge), things works much better. Beer

WW complete. MirX Teldex, Cubase, PC
Posted on Sun, Dec 19 2010 22:54
by passenger57
Joined on Thu, May 21 2009, Posts 189
I have a i7 core mac and the latest Logic 9. I have about 18 instances of VEP in Logic going out to two slave computers running Kontakt, PLAY, etc...
I do notice one of the cores getting into the red zone while the rest hover around 15%. I didn't know this could have anything to do with VEP.
Performance wise, my system is running great with the exception of a small pause before playback every few minutes. Not sure if that is related to this issue.
Posted on Mon, Dec 20 2010 07:03
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

do you have a lot of effects running in Logic ? reverbs ?

If yes you must uses busses so Logic spread the load across processors

Best

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Dec 20 2010 21:09
by passenger57
Joined on Thu, May 21 2009, Posts 189
I have all my fx with busses. No problem there. I'm just wondering if there is a way to get VEP to spread out over all the cores, or if this is a Logic issue. Not sure. Here is a tutorial for spreading fx: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161
Posted on Mon, Dec 20 2010 21:45
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

it's  a Logic issue Ick!

Look with activity monitor if the load is balanced ! (mine was, so it was Logic reporting core overload that did not existed)

To track your problem I will disable all FX one after one and see if this cure the problem. (suppressing the reverb should help)

Then I Will read the link given by passenger57 and apply it little by little the FX

Best

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Dec 20 2010 22:49
by passenger57
Joined on Thu, May 21 2009, Posts 189
The one core seems to be related to the number of instances of VEP. But I think your right, it is indeed a Logic issue. It must be quite a challenge for the Vienna programmers to always have to keep up with all the new systems, DAWs, plugins, etc, that are always changing. So extra kudos to you! =)
Posted on Thu, Dec 23 2010 20:52
by passenger57
Joined on Thu, May 21 2009, Posts 189
Cyril wrote:

Hello

Did you read those :

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/27029/177079.aspx#177079

if that does not help you can use VE PRO SERVER (I had the same problem and that solved it)

Best

Cyril



Cyril - Could you please elaborate? Do you mean you ran VEP as a server on the same machine as Logic? My two outboard PCs are running in server mode. I have VEP loaded up in Logic as a multi-instrument plugin. Is there another way to do this?
thanks!
Posted on Thu, Dec 23 2010 23:28
by Wolf Wein
Joined on Sun, Jan 11 2004, California, Posts 123

I have the same problem. Mixing in the VIframes is possible, yes, but very inconvenient as I'd have to save each VIFrame with each project (I run VEPro decoupled for snappier response in Logic) and would have to reload them for each new project, which defeats the great preserve feature.

I submitted a feature request to Apple with a link to this thread and Martin's explanation. Those who experience this problem, please do the same: http://www.apple.com/feedback/logicpro.html

2013 MacPro 2018 MacBookPro; MacOS 10.13.6, ; Logic 10.4.4; VSL cube a.o., VEPro, VIPRo, MIRPro,VSPro
wolftrackaudio.com
Posted on Mon, Jan 03 2011 05:12
by C_Caouette
Joined on Thu, Mar 11 2004, Posts 172

I'm in the middle of setting up a large template too and have noticed this problem.  VE pro is not playing nice.  I get distributed cores but I'll suddenly get massive stuttering and dropouts when using VE Pro but loading everything as separate VIPros in Logic yields smooth results.  I have Cubase 5 and tried that but the CPU usage was far worse.  I tried to add Vienna Suite eq to the VE Pro but that drove the CPU over the top.  Running them in Logic was much better.  Granted in all of this my machine is an older 2.66 quad Mac Pro.

Chris

Edit: I don't know if you've noticed but the load time with VI has gotten extremely quick practically negating the need for separate hosting.

Posted on Mon, Jan 03 2011 05:32
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
passenger57 wrote:

 Cyril - Could you please elaborate? Do you mean you ran VEP as a server on the same machine as Logic?

yes, 64bit

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jan 07 2011 10:31
by Stibi74
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2009, Posts 18
Hi,
i have the same Problem..(8 Core / Logic 9.1.3 VE Pro latest Version on one Machine)
I know that i can fix it when i mix everyhting in VE Pro and return it as one Stereo Output Back to Logic..but that would kill my whole Setup. (SSL Duende won´t work know in the 64Bit VEPro and the Euphonix MC Mix and MC Controls just can Mix a hole Stereo Input of "Strings" "Brass" etc...which make the a kind of "useless" - having all this faders)

So my question:
Can i fix it when i run VE Pro on a second machine (PC?), or is the moment when the Audio Input is linked to the Logic on the Mac Pro the bottle neck - and is still get this overload, even if all the Vienna stuff is NOT on the same machine?

Thanks for your help!

greets
Stefan
Stefan

____________________________________
Mac Pro 8-Core
12 GB Ram
Logic 9.1.3
Special Edition - FULL
Appassionata Strings 1 - Full
Woodwind 1 - Standart
Brass 1 - Standart
Ensemble Pro / Instrument Pro
Epic Orchestra / Flügelhorn / String+
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