Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
VI Pro - Wish list for the next update
Last post Wed, Feb 15 2012 by stoecklem_28725, 14 replies.
Options
Go to last post
Posted on Sun, Aug 22 2010 22:52
by registration_1655
Joined on Mon, Mar 03 2003, West Hollywood, Posts 48

I posted a separate list with all the features/improvements that I really liked. Here is the list of what I think should be worked on for the next update:

1) GUI

Honestly, I was a little bit disappointed by the look. It has a toy like "Fisher Prize" feel, looks flat with not much contrast and depth and is a little bit hard to read. It could be a VSL design decision to go "simple" but it comes across as the first programming job of a freeware app where the developer uses only the basic system graphics elements becasue he doesn't have the budget to hire a designer to create stunning graphics. 

2) Delete - Dialog Box

This is a in my opinion a major oversight that I listed already in the original VI. Every delete or clear action should have an alert box popping up "Are You Sure?" It is too easy, especially with everything getting so small, to click the trash icon by accident and poof, the Matrix is gone. I don't think this is a tricky programming tasks and should be just part of standard procedure.

3) Current Preset Name Display

This is another issue I posted back in VI. When you load a preset, the plugin window doesn't indicate the name of the loaded preset. Again this should be standard file handling procedure. A preset is like a document. When you open it up, the window header should display the name of the file so if you switch between multiple open files, you know which one you're working on. In addition, at least in OSX, the red circle in the left upper corner of a document window indicates if that file has been edited since it was opened (red circle with a dot) or if it unaltered (red circle without dot). 

4) Middle C standard

A wise man once said: "The good thing about a standard is that there are so many of them". This is kind of true for the naming of the "Middle C". There is the Roland (c4) and the Yamaha (c3) standard. My suggestion (again still back in VI) was to let the user choose in an option settings,

5) Window resize

A plugin window resize feature would be highly appreciated., like Logic's EXS24 where you just drag the window open to overcome the poor readability all those mini fonts.

6) "About Software" Bug

If you select  the "About software" from the Version popup menu in the right upper corner, the window will change to a wild colorful roller coaster animation. It looks kind of cool but I don't think it was the intention

7) File Browser / Custom Presets

This is a topic where I have problems/questions about it, so I start a separate post for that

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/26192/172939.aspx#172939

Edgar Rothermich
http://DIngDingMusic.com/Manuals/
MacPro 8core, OSX 10.6.7, 16GB RAM, Logic9, Fireface800
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2010 14:13
by jeancello
Joined on Tue, May 13 2008, Québec Canada, Posts 41

 Hi,

I just had a look a all the videos and it looks very good, I will very probably go for it.

The only thing for me that is missing badly is vibrato control in real time.

I don't understand why it is not there, Is it that difficult to do?

Or maybe it is an overlook from my part since there is a lot of new info to sift through.

It would be so nice to control the vibrato (depht and speed) since it is so linked to play an instrument (I am a cellist)

I hope it will come soon.

Thanks

Jean Roy

Jean Roy
Mac Pro 2019 12 160 GB
Special edition + ex, Solo string bundle, Chamber String bundle,
App String 1, Harps, Vienna Imperial, Soprano Choir, Dimension brass, Dimension strings + several download instruments
VE Pro, VI Pro, V Suite, MIR
Kontakt 6 Omnisphere
Cubase 12.0
Synchron strings and pianos
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2010 14:35
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13526

Hello Jean Roy,

vibrato control is indeed VERY hard to achieve. It´s not an oversight, but would require phase-alligning of all samples of each articulation, to create phasing free crossfading.

Let´s see when we can make this happen. For now, we have added progressive vibrato patches and decreasing vibrato patches for quite some instruments, and of course time-stretching lets you influence the vibrato frequency - but be careful about changes there, it starts to sound fake very quickly if you overdo the time-stretching.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2010 15:44
by jeancello
Joined on Tue, May 13 2008, Québec Canada, Posts 41

 Thanks for your answer Paul!

Bye the way, I do appreciate the new videos even if it is just 10000 feet overview.

I would suggest that you prepare a video with a particular piece of music and do a complete example with the new features.

I remember when I first bought VSL, I was a bit discouraged about the learning curve. Now it sounds a bit better. (Almost like the demosSmile

I did learn a lot from checking Jay Bacal's demo as how to combine different articulations to achieve the desired result.

I also used Beat Kaufman lessons which were also useful.

I really think that a complete project workflow using VIPro with an in-depth explanation at every step would be of great help.

In other words, a mix of Mr. Bacal's demos with the midi and VSL preset plus a workflow approach like Mr. Kaufman did but at a bit more advance level.

(A bit like you did with SE demo but more in depth)

As a comparison, I found Mr. Bacos video demos interesting to hear the sounds of a particular  instrument but completely useless as to learn how to achieve results. (At least, if we could get the midi and preset files, it would be a lot more useful)

When I buy these expensive gears, I do expect some workflow methodology for a complete project and that it could sounds very good.

I understand that "the rite of spring" is not realistic to undertake after 6 months... but at least having the ability to tackle a piece like "Fanfare for the common man" (I did learned a lot how to use the articulation for brass with that demo)

Keep up the good work!!

Jean Roy

Jean Roy
Mac Pro 2019 12 160 GB
Special edition + ex, Solo string bundle, Chamber String bundle,
App String 1, Harps, Vienna Imperial, Soprano Choir, Dimension brass, Dimension strings + several download instruments
VE Pro, VI Pro, V Suite, MIR
Kontakt 6 Omnisphere
Cubase 12.0
Synchron strings and pianos
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2010 15:52
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13526

Hello Jean Roy,

give us a little time. Covering a whole musical piece is hard work - and there are MANY ways to achieve this goal. Jay Bacal and Guy Bacos couldn´t work more different, believe me.

As a comparison: Hundreds of thounsands of students studied Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Debussy.... and even though all their music is now analyzed and has been explained and interpreted  thousands of times, each approach of every conductor, player, orchestra and hall will be different.

It´s a bit of a dilemma, but we´ll do our best with upcoming videos. In the end, it´s your musical knowledge, taste and
talent that will lead you to your results.Especially if you want to create something new.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2010 18:11
by jeancello
Joined on Tue, May 13 2008, Québec Canada, Posts 41

Hi Paul, 

I really appreciate this exchange!

I agree with you 100% but:

Every musician or conductors have begun much the same way... even if at the end, there are countless ways to interpret or conduct.

I will try an analogy to get my point across:

I conducted a choir for 15 years, at first I had to learn how to use a baton and the basic ways to conduct. I needed a base even though at the end, I had my own style.

But I had to see not only that I had to move the baton but make sense of how I moved it to get proper results.

Like Mr.Bacos video, I see that the baton can be moved but no clue as how to use it properly. I would at least need to see the midi files, when to do an articulation change and so on and correlates with what I hear. Then I can compare what I hear with what I see and then make inference to reach my proper goals.

This is what is lacking I beleive with VSL. I think one need to go through a good way to approach things even if in the end, I choose to develop my own workflow.  (There are bad and better ways to approach VSL.)

If one goes through a full process a couple of time,

one can at least see what is possible to achieve,

learn faster with less mistakes,

sees the major features with hand-on examples,

and achieve a good result the first time around.

And I think this is a key point. I'm sure that you would sell a lot more stuff if one could buy your products, goes through a "good" way to do things and achieve good results the first time around. I am not a professionnal but I am a serious hobbyst with over 25 years of experience with many synths and all kinds of music softwares.

I can attest that learning VSL was not an easy feat.

Lets face it; these softwares are very compicated and sometimes we don't even know what is possible to do with it.

VI Pro seems like a very nice tool to work with, if you get me through all the features with a real piece of music with actual midi files and all; even if it takes me a month to go through, the knowledge I'll get from that experience will bring me a great satisfaction and it will show in my music projects and all my friends will want to buy your productsBig Smile

There is too much difference between what we hear at first with these magnificient demos and what we can achieve at first.

Hoping it will help the process!

Jean Roy

Jean Roy
Mac Pro 2019 12 160 GB
Special edition + ex, Solo string bundle, Chamber String bundle,
App String 1, Harps, Vienna Imperial, Soprano Choir, Dimension brass, Dimension strings + several download instruments
VE Pro, VI Pro, V Suite, MIR
Kontakt 6 Omnisphere
Cubase 12.0
Synchron strings and pianos
Posted on Wed, Aug 25 2010 14:56
by hose
Joined on Fri, Nov 09 2007, Posts 153

And if I may add, full support for MIR!

Posted on Wed, Aug 25 2010 19:40
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1209

Here are some other suggestions for GUI refinements:

 When clicking a dropdown list, it would be nice if clicking it a second time would close the list, rather than having to click elsewhere in the GUI to close it

 

Sliders can be reset to default by double clicking.  I suggest that it would be more consistent with common practice to Ctrl-Click.  It would also be nice to be able to reset spin button type controls, and double clicking is needed there to highlight the value for editing.

 

It would be a nice connivance to be able to copy by Ctrl-dragging, also a common convention.

 

There's currently no warning when you over write a preset.

 

When you save the Startup preset in Advanced view, VIp still starts in Basic view.

Bill

 

Dorico, Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Overture, Cubase, StaffPad
Win11 x64, 64GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Thu, Aug 26 2010 09:19
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1781
jeancello wrote:

... I really think that a complete project workflow using VIPro with an in-depth explanation at every step would be of great help.

In other words, a mix of Mr. Bacal's demos with the midi and VSL preset plus a workflow approach like Mr. Kaufman did but at a bit more advance level.

(A bit like you did with SE demo but more in depth)

...

I'm just collecting experiences with VIPro...

Then I will prepare a small Tutorial which will produce a piece with VIPro with all the important (and special) steps just for this new Player "VIPro".

But let us get first the Final Version of this fantastic tool Cool.

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Feb 15 2012 01:05
by aron
Joined on Fri, Apr 01 2011, Posts 4
In my opinon the most important thing missing from vsl is active control of the vibrato,somthing that east west supposdly incorporated in hollywood strings.from what I understand you actually control vibrato frequnceies by using midi control.this would allow for a far more expressive and realistic performance.I sincerly hope this is a high priorty at vienna.
Tags: Vibrato
Posted on Wed, Feb 15 2012 04:04
by stoecklem_28725
Joined on Sun, Jun 24 2007, Posts 10

I'm definitely really hoping to get aftertouch added relatively soon and was sort of suprised it didn't make it into VIPro 2.  I hope it will be an option as a cell switching controller and in the performance controls. 

Posted on Wed, Feb 15 2012 10:06
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 I don't see how using aftertouch to switch cells could work.

Aftertouch is always at 0 until a key is pressed, then with pressure a value can be generated, but as soon as you let go of the key to play a new note, the aftertouch value will go to 0, so you'd always get the cell associated to value of 0. 

 The only way to make it work would be to hold a key down (out of range) with your other hand and control the pressure there, it  is difficult to get repeatable precise values from aftertouch, but a course 3 way switch might be achievable, with this two handed approach, but not useful enough to be on any priority list of new features. I certainly would never use it.

Aftertouch to be a CTRL Map source would be good option, though it would be good to have a range setting.

Posted on Wed, Feb 15 2012 13:31
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1209

 I've never heard an artificially produced vibrato that sounded real.  What would be great would be to have progressive vibrato patches of varying delays.  I find the ones in Solo strings take just a little too long to get to vibrato.

Dorico, Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Overture, Cubase, StaffPad
Win11 x64, 64GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Wed, Feb 15 2012 23:33
by stoecklem_28725
Joined on Sun, Jun 24 2007, Posts 10

Yes.  using it on another key was what I was thinking.  and of course aftertouch as a CTRL map would be much more useful and I would be happy with that. 

I am very lucky to have a kurzweil Midiboard and I can tell you the aftertouch is very controllable. and poly aftertouch gives me a lot more options so I can have one key basically act as a slider.   it also has an excellent feature called mono mode which is like auto voicing a little bit but to seperate midi channels.  each key pressed sends mono aftertouch on a seperate channel which can be useful.  one thing is it a way to enable poly aftertouch in only mono pressure supported synths.  of course with the draw back of many instances of the plugin you are using, usually only three or four will do.  I've tested it with VI pro by converting aftertouch to controller... it would be nice to not have to do that.  

You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.