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VE, Multi timbral and autmation in Logic Studio
Last post Wed, Nov 24 2010 by Ashermusic, 8 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Nov 20 2010 11:25
by m-tone
Joined on Fri, Oct 15 2010, Posts 28
Hello community!

I was wondering if there´s any manual available concerning automation in a Multi Timbral Inst since the automation (like Volume) in one Midi channel has an affect to the entire Inst.

Cant´t find anything neither in the forum nor on the VSL HP.

Thanks :-)
Posted on Sat, Nov 20 2010 11:47
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

This is a "feature" of Logic.


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Posted on Sat, Nov 20 2010 18:20
by m-tone
Joined on Fri, Oct 15 2010, Posts 28
Thanks DG for your reply!

I couldn´t find this feature in the logic manual as well. So how and where can I find an answer? Or could anyone tell me how this feature is called?

Thanks :-)

Posted on Sat, Nov 20 2010 22:42
by guitarandy
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2008, Santa Fe, NM, USA, Posts 6

pardon me if I am stating anything that is already obvious.

when using multi-timbral instruments in Logic:

MIDI CC automation on a region isn't quite the same as automation on the track on which the information is recorded - as you can move automation from the region to the track and vice-versa. But its not a complete transform either way. You can lose automation.

So performing a volume ride on the midi track (or instrument channel of a multi-timbral) affects all those midi tracks for that region.

My solution was to only perform MIDI CC automation on the region and not even touch the volume of the track (hope thats clear, I am not using maybe the right terminology)

some CC's that might be useful

1 - mod

2 - breath controller (which I mapped to velocity crossfader in VSL)

5 - portamento time (esp. useful in EW PLAY for legato / portamento control)

7 - Volume

11 - Expression

And use the Hyperdraw functions in logic as well as the CC automation view in the piano roll. between key switching and mod wheel control, I get access to all the different samples in each instrument channel. 

From what I have read, most people in these forums seem to advise setting overall channel instrument volume using CC7, and then putting in specific cresc / decresc with CC11 (or in my case, I am using CC2 to activate the velocity crossfader with VSL as it sounds good to me)

in addition, with multi-timbral instruments, you can use it as stereo or multi-output, and have aux channels activated for each output or pairs of outputs that the instrument has. 

i.e. - create new track, choose EXS24, choose multioutput. 

In the mixer, look at the channel you just created, at the bottom near the channel name should be a small + sign.

click that and for each click, a new aux channel will be created for each output of the instrument. 

Once you have a bunch of aux channels, then each will handle the output of corresponding midi channels for the same instrument. And each aux can have pre and post fader effects on it, and volume automation drawn on the aux as well. Each aux will have individual control. 

Using VSL and VE PRO, I have found this way of working to make sense to me. Using  EW PLAY QLSO, it's a little less useful so I don't bother with the multi aux creation, but still make the instrument multi-timbral and record region automation for all those CC's

Hope this rambling story helps you.

Mac Pro 2 x 2.66ghz Xeon 12-core | 32 GB RAM | OSX 10.13.3 | Apogee Duet 2 | UA Solo610 | Logic 10.4.1 | ProTools 12| PLAY | EW CCC | VSL SE+ | VE 3 PRO 32 + 64 bit | LASS 2.5 + LS 2.5 | Cinebrass | UAD Quad PCI
Posted on Sun, Nov 21 2010 04:22
by inwinterhesleeps
Joined on Sat, Dec 03 2005, Posts 68

Thanks guitarandy. That was a very thorough and helpful reply. It's great that people on this forum are willing to give their time to help out others.

On the other hand...

Thanks so much DG for giving us your Apple hate yet again on a thread that doesn't concern you. Great work on really contributing something useful. You just have to insist and put your mustard everywhere don't you?

Posted on Sun, Nov 21 2010 16:15
by m-tone
Joined on Fri, Oct 15 2010, Posts 28
WOW!!! Thank you so much for this detailed information, guitarandy!!!! I really couldn´t find any infos about that. Neither on various Logic Forums nor via google or youtube.

I will try this as soon as I get back to work!

Thanks again!!!!

Best wishes, Belush

Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 23:43
by Jurgen Beck
Joined on Sat, Jan 31 2009, Posts 69

This has been something I wish Apple would change in Logic. Many of us found ways to work around it and here is my approach:

I work with the Environment by setting up a Transformer object that translates all CC7 (Volume) messages to CC11 (Expression). I then connect the Instrument object to that Transformer object, while the Transformer object is connected to the virtual instrument track in the Mixer (in the Environment).

This allows me to work with the faders in the mixer (for automation, etc.), while at the same time getting around the issue of altering the volume for the multi-timbral instrument.

One thing you'll have to make sure is that your virtual instrument channels (such as for any Kontakt instrument) is set to alter the volume with the CC11 message it receives. Requires a bit of mapping MIDI CC messages, but works like a charm.

I put up a screenshot of what this should look like in the environment, which you can find here

Posted on Wed, Nov 24 2010 15:41
by Ashermusic
Joined on Fri, Jan 02 2009, Posts 561
Also, if all you want to automate is volume and not the other things that cc1 or cc11 may include in specific libraries, bringing the audio from VE Pro outputs in on auxes in Logic allows you to simply automate the auxes. This also has the advantage of allowing you to add different fx to different sounds.
Composer, Logic Pro Certified Trainer, author of "Jumpstart Logic Pro 10.6 " & "Scoring WIth Logic Pro"

Mac Studio Max, 32 GB RAM. macOS 13.2.1
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