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Shame on Dimension Brass.
Last post Sat, Feb 05 2011 by fritzflotow, 56 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 19:16
by Titi
Joined on Fri, Dec 29 2006, FRANCE, Posts 39

I work with full VSL. Like many people, I have Brass I & II ( full ). Like many of us, I can say VSL is so usefull and sounds so great for a virtual symphonic. 

So why do I write this title ?  Why am I so angry ?

Because, until today, with around 10 000 euros spend, you couldn't record correctly divisi !!!

And when the solution comes, what can we see ? 495 euros to have ONLY brass divisi, WITHOUT mute sounds, WITHOUT the famous 8 epic horns but only 4 horns divisi, with 4 trumpets and 4 trombones while wee need them in 3 parts ( in almost all orchestra ) !!! And now, wee can expect to wait so many months ( years ? ) to have all divisi for the entire orchestra and spend 2000 or 3000 euros again ???

Sorry, but this is a shame. I'm so disappointed.

Respectfully, for all.

David.

Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 19:37
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

 So what are you saying VSL should do?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 21:11
by Titi
Joined on Fri, Dec 29 2006, FRANCE, Posts 39

Seems to bee too late ! Dimension Brass is already here :(

But if you want me to give you an answer to your question, I would say that customers who bought all VSL would not have to give more than 500 euros for ALL divisi of ALL the instruments concerned by this obligation.

David.

Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 21:38
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600
Titi wrote:

Because, until today, with around 10 000 euros spend, you couldn't record correctly divisi !!!

And when the solution comes, what can we see ? 495 euros to have ONLY brass divisi, WITHOUT mute sounds, WITHOUT the famous 8 epic horns but only 4 horns divisi, with 4 trumpets and 4 trombones while wee need them in 3 parts ( in almost all orchestra ) !!! And now, wee can expect to wait so many months ( years ? ) to have all divisi for the entire orchestra and spend 2000 or 3000 euros again ???

Sorry, but this is a shame. I'm so disappointed.

 

Everyone is entitled to a frustrated rant, but I don't really get what your complaint is, if you want 3 part trumpets and your given 4, well just mute one of them.  I don't get all this rage about divisi (it's the same on other forums too), I always play my section parts in separately, so if I have 3 trumpets in a section, I would never play chords, I would play the trumpets 3 times each, ideally with a different sound, if unavailable then humanize, EQ or do something to force a variation in the sound. Dimension Brass gives us those different player sounds to do this, it's an add on to Brass I and Brass II, which have normal and extended versions, the Dimension Brass is probably the first part, there is likely to be an extended library, plus maybe a Dimension Brass II and extended. So I am sure more articulations will appear.
Surely, you shouldn't complain about VSL extending the library?

The only issue I have with new editions, is that uncontrollable urge to want to own it. 

Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 21:42
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Titi wrote:

Seems to bee too late ! Dimension Brass is already here :(

But if you want me to give you an answer to your question, I would say that customers who bought all VSL would not have to give more than 500 euros for ALL divisi of ALL the instruments concerned by this obligation.

David.

 

I see. And how do you propose that VSL fund this?

I don't really see the issue. If you already have all the Brass you have all the divisi that you need. What you don't have is a whole load of new recordings that have to be paid for some how.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 22:44
by Titi
Joined on Fri, Dec 29 2006, FRANCE, Posts 39

It's not because I bought full VSL ( step by step ) that I will applause for each thing they do !

Making such professionnel symphonic orchestra without considering divisi at the beginning of the conception of the soft is a big mistake. I mentionned this problem a few years ago and everybody said I was to hard to please. Today finally, VSL treats this problem, and we would have to say "thank you, how much for a few brass divisi" ? 

How could I be clear ? Let's try this question :

Is 10 000 euros not enough to be abble to record correctly the instruments in divisi ?  

Of more thing, when you have spend so many hours buildind a great symphonic template, you just want to work with it. You don't have necesseraly the time to change it regulary.

Well, I should forget those divisi and continue writing.

David.

Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 22:54
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

 It's not that I'm being unsympathetic to the fact that You've already spent a lot of money, but you must realise that when VSL started all of this it really wasn't possible to do all the fancy things that they have now. There are companies that have been in business a lot longer that don't yet have the features of the very first Vienna Instrument, which must be at least 5 years ago.

I think that you need to accept that technology changes things, and the computers we have now weren't even considered possible a few years ago.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2011 23:13
by Titi
Joined on Fri, Dec 29 2006, FRANCE, Posts 39

I understand the fact that technology give us new and best possibilities each year. That's great ! I know that my symphonic VSL will be old-fashioned in 10 years.

What I just really wanted to say is that it's a shame to sell 495 euros a few brass divisi to customers who bought already all VSL. They could be much more accommodating.

Maybe I should have writen this sentence before :)

Sorry, my maternal language is not english.

David.

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 01:37
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 Dimension Brass does consist of over sixty eight thousand samples, that would have taken a while to edit that lot. If they cannot sell new libraries they are not going to be able to finance new projects. 

Just think of your VSL library getting better all the time, and Dimension Brass is on offer at the moment.

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 02:12
by gusttsilis
Joined on Mon, Jun 26 2006, Los Angeles, Posts 17

I believe you both make a good point. Now you need to convince the powers that be at VSL to deal with each customer on a one on one basis. If you have purchased x amount of their library you qaulify foe x a mount of a discount for the forthcoming divisi styled libraries. What do you think?

Gust

Searching for the truth and honesty in sampled sounds for the Orchestra............
Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 09:21
by Sergino Futurino
Joined on Thu, Dec 18 2003, Italy, Posts 652

 Today my Dimension Brass DVD arrived. Obviously it is a step ahead in sampling technique. Also spracht Zaratustra and Fanfare for the common man never sounded so well at home. But I wonder why it costs so much. It's just 1 DVD and I think is the most expensive library from VSL. If all the next divisi will cost so much, I will suffer in silence as I can't afford so many future Dimension libraries.

www.sergiobrunetti.it
Windows 10 on Vertex4 SSD - I7 3960x overclocked @4.0 Ghz - 32 GB RAM -
2010 MacbookPro 2.66 Ghz 8 Giga RAM -
MOTU: 2408 MK3, 24i, Traveler,MIDI Express XT
Studio One 4.1 Pro, Notion 6.5, Sibelius 6.2, Kontakt 5.6
VE Pro 6, VI Pro 2, Vienna Suite, Vienna MIR Pro w/Roompacks 1 and 2,
Libraries (preload size 2408): Special Edition Standard and Plus, Appassionata I, Solo Strings I, Dimension Brass, Percussion, Soprano Choir, Upright Bass, Flugelhorn, Saxophones, Concert guitar, Jazz Drums, Epic Orchestra, Dimension Strings
Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 12:02
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 If you look at say Brass 1 standard library, that is around 24,000 samples and costs £335 and has trumpet, horn, trombone and tuba. Dimension brass is £415 and has around 68,000 samples and has trumpet, horn, trombone, tuba and bass trombone. So costs about 25% more, yet has about 185% more samples, and one extra instrument (plus of course multiple instruments within the section).

The size (Gb) of the library does not reflect the cost of producing it, it is the creating of all those samples, and the Brass I library size includes the extended library, as they have to be both installed even if you only have one. Even though Dimension Brass is on one DVD, it decompresses to 20Gb. 

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 12:25
by Sergino Futurino
Joined on Thu, Dec 18 2003, Italy, Posts 652

 The brass I extended is 119967 samples and costs less than dimension brass Geeked, so the count of samples is useless

What I meant is that this new technology is very good but even very expensive...

www.sergiobrunetti.it
Windows 10 on Vertex4 SSD - I7 3960x overclocked @4.0 Ghz - 32 GB RAM -
2010 MacbookPro 2.66 Ghz 8 Giga RAM -
MOTU: 2408 MK3, 24i, Traveler,MIDI Express XT
Studio One 4.1 Pro, Notion 6.5, Sibelius 6.2, Kontakt 5.6
VE Pro 6, VI Pro 2, Vienna Suite, Vienna MIR Pro w/Roompacks 1 and 2,
Libraries (preload size 2408): Special Edition Standard and Plus, Appassionata I, Solo Strings I, Dimension Brass, Percussion, Soprano Choir, Upright Bass, Flugelhorn, Saxophones, Concert guitar, Jazz Drums, Epic Orchestra, Dimension Strings
Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 12:25
by Titi
Joined on Fri, Dec 29 2006, FRANCE, Posts 39

Gust, I think the solution is here, if I understand well what you propose.

The price of all the new divisi boxes should be calculated on all the boxes bought before. That's to say, someone who bought all VSL should buy the new divisi boxes for a very low price.

This solution would be probably honest for all customers.

David.

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 14:31
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9101

fortunately the pricing policy is not based on discussion or voting ... otherwise my job had vaporized already years ago ;-)

SCNR

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 20:31
by gusttsilis
Joined on Mon, Jun 26 2006, Los Angeles, Posts 17

Exactly... as when you frequent a bar in the states, the bar tender buys you drinks from time to time because of your patronage. Patronage is what the VSL users are singing about.

Searching for the truth and honesty in sampled sounds for the Orchestra............
Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 22:37
by Titi
Joined on Fri, Dec 29 2006, FRANCE, Posts 39

Oh, sorry but I don't understand your two sentences :(

Could you please present your idea with other words ?

Thank you,

David.

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2011 23:39
by gusttsilis
Joined on Mon, Jun 26 2006, Los Angeles, Posts 17

 If you purchase items from a business and you are a regular customer, the business should give you, as a customer... some kind of deal. The complaints from people on this forum are, that the dimensions brass is a small sampled library. I see this program as a fine invention and yet I do agree with the complaints that the price should be varied. If one owns the entire cube or a substanstial part of it, they should get a deal.

Searching for the truth and honesty in sampled sounds for the Orchestra............
Posted on Wed, Jan 19 2011 01:11
by JET
Joined on Wed, Nov 10 2010, Posts 60

I can see both sides of the argument. On one side, nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything. We all want the latest and greatest when it comes to technology. Whether we really need the newest toys is a different matter.

OSX 10.6.6
Macbook Pro 2.66 i7
8GBs
Posted on Wed, Jan 19 2011 01:29
by gusttsilis
Joined on Mon, Jun 26 2006, Los Angeles, Posts 17

Frequent purchase points. FPP card by VSL, great idea. Does the heirarchy ever listen?

Searching for the truth and honesty in sampled sounds for the Orchestra............
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