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VI Pro with AKAI MPK88
Last post Wed, Nov 16 2011 by Composer321, 16 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Mar 09 2011 17:08
by Samadhi
Joined on Sat, Feb 12 2011, Spain, Posts 35
Hi, I need some help here. I use the AKAI MPK88 and MPK25 (this one for mobile purposes). As maybe you know they have a set of 16 pads (MPK88) which are very convenient for changing the different articulations inside VI Pro, as you can also have four different banks of pads that you can select just by pressing a button. The problem is that I cannot assign a single cell to a single pad. I have to use the X/Y configuration. I've been thinking about it for some hours but cannot find a solution. So, the question is, how can I assign a note to every cell of a matrix. CC's could also work. Any contribution will be very much appreciated. Thanks :)
Posted on Wed, Mar 09 2011 18:09
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 If you right click on the X or Y controller type box in VI Pro and select KEYSWITCH, you can then select cells with keys. As you are using the drum pads, you can select note values that are beyond the 88 note range, which keeps them out of the way of the keyboard.

Posted on Thu, Mar 10 2011 19:20
by Samadhi
Joined on Sat, Feb 12 2011, Spain, Posts 35
Hi Andy, thanks for your suggestion! Well, what I wanted to do is to assign each cell of the matrix to a particular note so if, for example, I want to go to cell C9, I just have to press a button, not using the X and Y keyswitches. I'm also experimenting with the different ways VE Pro allows you to change between articulations. Assigning the X to a slider, and the same with Y looks good too, but it'll take some time to get used to. Which one do you use?
Posted on Thu, Mar 10 2011 20:45
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 I always use controllers to control the X and Y, it is a lot easier to have a controller lane (or VST Expression in Cubase) using controllers, especially as keyswitches mess up the score edit page. I don't try to change cells in real time, I record my track with one articulation, and then set the required articulations afterwards.

You could have single notes changing each cell, but you would have to have a one dimensional matrix array, so just using the X axis only, then each new keyswitch note, would select the cell, the only snag here, is that you may run out of notes, before the keyswitches collide with the playable area.

Posted on Sat, Mar 12 2011 23:34
by Samadhi
Joined on Sat, Feb 12 2011, Spain, Posts 35
andyjh wrote:
don't try to change cells in real time, I record my track with one articulation, and then set the required articulations afterwards.


Hi Andy! That's the way I used to work before but, having seen all the posibilities you get to play in real time, I'm trying to get used to play in this way, just to see if I can get a more "natural" performance without having to spend a lot of time tweaking midi notes afterwards. But I'm just experimenting, so you never know.

andyjh wrote:
I always use controllers to control the X and Y, it is a lot easier to have a controller lane (or VST Expression in Cubase) using controllers, especially as keyswitches mess up the score edit page.


I had the same problem before, lots of bass notes everywhere making the score useless. I haven't used Cubase for a long time, but in Logic there's an option to set the note range of each instrument in the score editor, so it only displays the notes within this range. This way you can use keyswitches and keep your score clean. Maybe Cubase has this same option.

andyjh wrote:
ou could have single notes changing each cell, but you would have to have a one dimensional matrix array, so just using the X axis only,


Yes, maybe you run out of notes, but I'll give it a try anyway. Thanks for your ideas!
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 04:12
by Andrew831
Joined on Thu, Sep 03 2009, Posts 4
I agree - it would be cool to be able to use a controller like the Akai apc40, ableton novation launchpad, or Livid Ohm64 and assign a cell to each pad. But I have not found a way to link each pad to each cell in VI Pro. Does anyone else know how?



Andrew
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 11:17
by Composer321
Joined on Sun, May 16 2010, Posts 63
Hi
I have a few workarounds that might help you.


======================================================================================================================
Method 1 (This method will allow you to assign each of up to 23 buttons on your control surface to a matrix cell.)
======================================================================================================================

1 Create a 12 X 12 matrix. Assign both X & Y to the same controller (a controller you won't be using for anything else.)
2 Arrange all Matrix control bars for the X axis to fit into the left half of the X-axis grid.
3 Arrange all Matrix control bars for the y axis to fit into the right half of the Y-axis grid.
4 Be sure the right most control bar in the X axis is to the left of the left most control bar in the y axis.


5.Place the articulations you want to use in the top row and in the last column of the matrix.
Now simply assign each button on your midi control surface to send a controller value using the controller you assigned in step 1.


The approximate values will be something like the ones below. The values will vary slightly depending on the spacing of the matrix control bars.


Button 1 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 0 (Selects Matrix cell A1)
Button 2 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 3 (Selects Matrix cell A2)
Button 3 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 7(Selects Matrix cell A3)
Button 4 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 13(Selects Matrix cell A4)
Button 5 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 22(Selects Matrix cell A5)
Button 6 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 26(Selects Matrix cell A6)
Button 7 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 36(Selects Matrix cell A7)
etc...
Button 11 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 57(Selects Matrix cell A11)
Button 12 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 62(Selects Matrix cell A12)



At this point, you will be at the end of the right edge of the matrix and the
numeric values will start moving through the Y axis so the direction is down
the control.
Button 13 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 70(Selects Matrix cell B12)
Button 14 on your control surface = Send CCx value of 82(Selects Matrix cell C12)
etc


How it works...
When you press buttons that send lower numeric values, the y axis remain static at 0
so as you increment numerically the cells move left to right in the same row,
because of the arrangement of the matrix control bars.


When you reach the middle numeric values, those values effect the y axis while X axis remain static at a
value of about 62... again this because of how the matrix control bars are arranged.


This method will waste most of the matrix cells, but who cares. You will be able to select one articulation per button.
...up to 23


I've been using this method for some time. Once it is setup it's seamless.


I worked this out so I could play with my right hand and change articulation easily and intuitively with my left hand.


If this is confusing, I could insert a screen shot of the matrix X/Y axis grid, if someone would kindly tell how to insert a graphic image.



==================================================================================
Method 2 - This will allow you use up to 128 buttons to select 128 articulations
=================================================================================
Simply add up to 128 matrices to a preset.
Make each matrix consist of only one cell.
Assign each button on your midi controller to send a program change.


Button 1 send prog change 1 to select matrix 1.
Button 2 send prog change 2 to select matrix 2.
Button 3 send prog change 3 to select matrix 3.
etc


I would be interested to hear feedback on these methods. Are they flawed in some way that I have overlooked?
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 11:25
by Composer321
Joined on Sun, May 16 2010, Posts 63
Maybe VI pro 2 will make it easier
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 20:07
by ddunn
Joined on Fri, Aug 03 2007, Posts 78
Andrew Nerness wrote:
I agree - it would be cool to be able to use a controller like the Akai apc40, ableton novation launchpad, or Livid Ohm64 and assign a cell to each pad. But I have not found a way to link each pad to each cell in VI Pro. Does anyone else know how?

I use a Lemur to do this.  And the advantage of a Lemur vs other controllers of this type, is that you can label each button with the corresponding articulation.

D Dunn

Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 20:21
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

 I also use a Lemur, but it's not a long term solution, as they have been discontinued. Sad

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 20:26
by Composer321
Joined on Sun, May 16 2010, Posts 63
The best solution would be the ability to assign a program change number to each matrix cell, since nearly all control surface buttons can send program change commands.I am hoping this will be implemented at some point in VI Pro.
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 20:38
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Composer321 wrote:
The best solution would be the ability to assign a program change number to each matrix cell, since nearly all control surface buttons can send program change commands.I am hoping this will be implemented at some point in VI Pro.
 

That's only a good solution if you use program changes (which I don't), and as VST3 doesn't support program changes it is also a short term solution for many users.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 22:57
by Composer321
Joined on Sun, May 16 2010, Posts 63
Thanks for pointing out that VST3 will not support program changes.



Will VI Pro 2 have a way to implement changing matrix cells with a button press from a controller or do you have any suggestions on how to do this more elegantly than my crude workarounds? Thank you
Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 23:31
by ddunn
Joined on Fri, Aug 03 2007, Posts 78
Composer321 wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that VST3 will not support program changes.

You can do this already with VI Pro.  You can choose to have matrixes respond to program change.  Or any cc.  (I believe that's correct)

But I am currently using prg change.

D Dunn

Posted on Tue, Nov 15 2011 23:56
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
ddunn wrote:
Composer321 wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that VST3 will not support program changes.

You can do this already with VI Pro.  You can choose to have matrixes respond to program change.  Or any cc.  (I believe that's correct)

But I am currently using prg change.

D Dunn

 

 Yes, but as I mentioned, if you happen to host VI Pro in VE Pro, then Program Changes won't work in the VST3 version.

What we really need is for VSL, NI and all the other sample developers to get on with the whole VST3 thing, so that us poor users can find out what the change from Program Change to Program List actually means. Stick out tongue

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Wed, Nov 16 2011 00:09
by Composer321
Joined on Sun, May 16 2010, Posts 63
ddunn wrote:
Composer321 wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that VST3 will not support program changes.

You can do this already with VI Pro.  You can choose to have matrixes respond to program change.  Or any cc.  (I believe that's correct)

But I am currently using prg change.

D Dunn



Hi DDunn


Thanks for responding. I am aware that matrices can be changed with a Program change command. That's not what I want to do. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.



I want to change cells within a matrix, not entire matrices and be able to do it with a single button press on my Zero SL control surface.
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