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  • Logic/VEP decoupling question

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    Hi all,

    Something still escapes me here. I've got my Logic template set up with four instances of VEP. They are all decoupled. With all apps closed, I launch VEP (on the same computer). Only the central (small) window is visible. Now I open the template in Logic, which immediately creates four empty VEP instances in the server. Now, when I go back into the VEP server to load my metaframe (for the four projects), I get the message that I need to disconnect the running (empty) instances first. I never asked for these to be opened, and I thought decoupling would take care of that.

    Apparently I'm doing something wrong, or in the wrong order. I know I *can* load the VEP metaframe before opening the Logic template, but sometimes I just need to check something in the template without actually loading the samples.

    Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.
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    Are the 4 VE Pro plugs in Logic Disconnected as well as Decoupled?
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    If I load the template when VEP server isn't running, then they show up as decoupled *and* disconnected. But if the VEP server is running, they are automagically connected when the template loads (opening four empty viframes as described above).
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    Funny, that is not happening here.
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    @Talino said:

    Hi all,

    Something still escapes me here. I've got my Logic template set up with four instances of VEP. They are all decoupled. With all apps closed, I launch VEP (on the same computer). Only the central (small) window is visible. Now I open the template in Logic, which immediately creates four empty VEP instances in the server. Now, when I go back into the VEP server to load my metaframe (for the four projects), I get the message that I need to disconnect the running (empty) instances first. I never asked for these to be opened, and I thought decoupling would take care of that.

    Apparently I'm doing something wrong, or in the wrong order. I know I *can* load the VEP metaframe before opening the Logic template, but sometimes I just need to check something in the template without actually loading the samples.

    Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

    Hi ,

    1.

    Concerning empty instances created in VEP after launching Logic :

    Somewhere in the process of setting up your template you've saved the Logic Song while

    the VEP AU's were  still connected to VEP ( ..."Decoupled" , yes , but still connected ...) .

    2.

    After this activity you've made changes in Logic or the VEP Server / Instances  without saving them.

    For example you renamed an instance within VEP Server  , or whatever ...

    3.

    Whenever you launch your Logic template now , Logic will (try to  re-)create these Instances/this setup , which actually

    does not exist anymore in that particular way .

    4.

    To get rid of this :

    Open your Logic template before you  launch the VEP Server .

    Save the Logic Song .

    Quit Logic .

    Because Logic couldn't find an active VEP Server now ,  it just saved the basic  information that it

    has some VE AU PlugINs in the session , but couldn't save any directions or something like that.

    -- -- --

    I'm not a tech guy , so I explain all this in a clumsy way , but try it ... it should solve your issue.

    The next time you start VEP and Logic there shouldn't be any of those "Ghost Instances"  left .

    Best

    Gerd
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    Hello,

    Thank you for your detailed reply. I followed your steps exactly but it didn't help (even though I saved the project with all the plugins disconnected and VEP not running, empty VEP instances were still created when reloading the template). So I took it one step further and actually *removed* all the VEP plugin instances from inside Logic and then put them back again (disconnected and decoupled). This finally worked.

    I'm not a programmer, but wouldn't it be possible in a future update to make each plugin store an instance name and then do the following when a project loads :

    1. If decoupled, check whether a named and preserved instance is already loaded in a VEP server (e.g. "VSL Winds").

    2. If so, connect. Otherwise stay disconnected and don't do anything.

    A general preference could be add to turn this behavior on or off.

    Also, Logic is a major annoyance with VEP because closing a song doesn't disconnect from the VEP server. I actually have a template with nothing in it called 'VEP disconnect' which I need to open in order to free the VEP connection. It would therefore be nice, if technically possible, to have a "connect all loaded" button which would then connect all plugin instances to the named and preserved vframes which are stored in the plugin.

    I hope all of this makes sense, I'm a bit clumsy myself :)
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    To use decoupled, you need to fully load the VE Pro metaframes before launching the Logic project or this is the behavior, new instances; there is no way for Logic to know any different.
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    decoupled is designed so that the DAW host automatically connects to the instances you have loaded. there will be no option to subvert that, so do not occupy your thought with that... if you do not want Logic to automatically connect with [the fully loaded] VE Pro instance(s), what you do is leave them coupled; and when you open Logic, you manually connect to empty instances and Logic has stored the instructions to load them from Logic; which will take longer and save operations will take longer, often by a lot.

    these are the two basic modes of operation. If your use is going to involve substantial loading, you'll want to manage projects and frames in VE Pro separately from your Logic projects and decouple. this means you will save every change in VE Pro as a metaframe save (as decoupling means Logic doesn't save any of it); and I'd advise saving the VI frames as projects in order to rebuild them in case of any corruption in the metaframe, and to save channels/channel sets as well.
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    Thanks for the vframe/mframe rebuilding tip. I am aware of the overall saving/loading design goals of decoupling and it's been working great so far. My question was related to what seemed to be a quirk, or at least a behavior that could be improved.
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    @Another User said:

    Also, Logic is a major annoyance with VEP because closing a song doesn't disconnect from the VEP server. I actually have a template with nothing in it called 'VEP disconnect' which I need to open in order to free the VEP connection. It would therefore be nice, if technically possible, to have a "connect all loaded" button which would then connect all plugin instances to the named and preserved vframes which are stored in the plugin

    Closing a Cubase project does not disconnect from the server either, in decoupled/preserved mode. It shouldn't. It's a feature. If you want it to disconnect just owing to closing the Logic song, couple it with VE Pro. To reiterate, in decoupled mode the DAW host connects all you've loaded in VE Pro; Logic should remember to connect them in order just like the last time you worked on the song. It still seems to me you desire for the advantages of both, both ways, which isn't logical to me. I may have misread this but ii's not from lack of trying.
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    I don't want to have anything both ways, I was merely suggesting that between remembering everything (and increasing project load times) and remembering nothing (as per the current decoupled workflow), a VEP plugin instance in Logic could be made to remember only the name of the preserved VEP project it was originally connected to on the VEP server (the name you enter when clicking "Preserve instance").

    Then, when a Logic project or template is loaded, each plugin instance (i.e. each VEP plugin inserted in a software instrument object) could check to see whether an instance exists on the VEP server with the name it has stored (e.g. "VSL Winds", "LASS", "Whatever"). Then it could either (A) connect to it (B) create an empty instance or (C) don't attempt to connect and load in "disconnected mode" instead. A/B/C could be a preference.

    I'm not saying this idea is easy to implement or useful to a lot of people, but at any rate I can't make it any clearer than that.
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    I name my preserved instances eg., "1, 2, 3, 4" according to the corresponding slots in the Cubase vsti rack. Cubase does not remember nothing in

    'decoupled', it remembers exactly what to connect to from last time.

    Decoupled; I open the metaframes, then the Cubase project. Cubase remembered the names of and the order of slots/instances. If I unpreserve and represerve I can give descriptive names to the vi frames within the metaframes and now it (in the VEP server window I connect to in Cubase) reads: "1 - VSL Percussion" However, Cubase does not remember these descriptive names the next time it connects, as that is on the VE Pro side.  That will mean the handling of VE Pro's loading of metaframes will include VE Pro remembering the descriptive names of its particular vi frames and reveal these names to the DAW host via the VE Pro server window (which is not a current feature).

    Am I following correctly? If so, it still seems to me you further want Logic doing something in 'decoupled' it does with 'coupled' instances, 'look for' is problematic. It's decoupled. It won't look; it will know the order, but looking will be, by definition a feature of coupling. If you want to load a different metaframe but not quit Logic, you have to disconnect; 4 instances = 4 clicks of the disconnect button, which isn't a problem for me, I don't mind the 2-3 seconds it takes, & I expect to do it from my understanding of how it works.

    "Then it could either (A) connect to it (B) create an empty instance or (C) don't attempt to connect and load in "disconnected mode" instead. A/B/C could be a preference." Just seems completely problematic to me, logically. IE: That it connects automatically to a decoupled frames is a feature. That it does not do this with coupled frames is the feature of that M.O., 'disconnected'. "(A)" is a feature that is negated by, being the opposite of, the other features; where you want it optional, I guess per VE Pro preferences. (If you load the Logic project before the VE Pro frames are done loading, you have your "(B)" option. "(C)" there I don't know how to read.) I can't say for certain, my mind hits a wall here just now, but it seems like what you want is incompatible with the design. I could be wrong.
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    @civilization 3 said:

    it seems like what you want is incompatible with the design.

    That's probably it. Thank you for your detailed replies.