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MIR PRO: Around the corner?
Last post Sun, Oct 16 2011 by Dietz, 229 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 15:50
by Sami Boman
Joined on Wed, Mar 23 2005, Jyväskylä, Finland, Posts 207
musos wrote:

This is really not an appropriate or polite statement from someone who works for VSL.

I'm pretty sure Dietz wasn't being completely serious with his comment. I think it's possible to find a bit of banter there.

Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 16:30
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1110

For the record I also took Dietz's comment very lightheartedly (I still would even without the emoticon), in addition, if 80% or so of a company's customers are PC users of course they would take priority in some fashion or other. I'm happy enough that VSL video demos/tutorials are done on the Mac - you just can't beat the aesthetics, and I personally could not possibly work if I had to look at a Vista screen/buttons/architecture etc.

Logic X? Where did you hear that? This summer? I wonder whether it will just be a little Lionized or actually include some real improvements...

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 17:15
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
musos wrote:
Dietz wrote:

There will be a built-in solution especially for those poor souls who have to use Logic. Geeked A workaround, of course, but it will work.

This is really not an appropriate or polite statement from someone who works for VSL. Dietz, you usually try to deflect discussions away from platform wars and this comment shows a rather unfortunate bias. It also tells tells me that Mac/Logic users are possibly regarded as second-class citizens by VSL and even that development for Mac takes a reluctant second place in your priorities.

Very unfortunate indeed.

 

You could also read it as VSL spending extra time specifically for Logic users on features that nobody else needs, thereby showing a greater commitment to OSX than Windows. Wink

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 17:16
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Errikos wrote:

.....and I personally could not possibly work if I had to look at a Vista screen/buttons/architecture etc.

 

 

Luckily professionals using MIR use Windows 7. Stick out tongue

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 17:31
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 8056
musos wrote:
Dietz wrote:

There will be a built-in solution especially for those poor souls who have to use Logic. Geeked A workaround, of course, but it will work.

This is really not an appropriate or polite statement from someone who works for VSL. Dietz, you usually try to deflect discussions away from platform wars and this comment shows a rather unfortunate bias. It also tells tells me that Mac/Logic users are possibly regarded as second-class citizens by VSL and even that development for Mac takes a reluctant second place in your priorities.

Very unfortunate indeed.

Sigh. Why can't my words be taken with a pinch of salt, especially when I give a positive answer and add a BIG FAT SMILEY ...

So let me put it that way: Yes, we try to overcome the limitations of Logic once again on behalf of a tailor-made solution, developed escpecially for you.

... does this sound better now?

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 17:43
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2730
DG wrote:

Luckily professionals using MIR use Windows 7. Stick out tongue

DG

There is no other solution as MIR, today, only work on PC !Angry

As VSL is developing MIR PRO to run on Mac it is a serious sign that there is money to do with Mac user and a lot of Mac user are refusing to work with PC

VSL (Martin S) did an extra effort to re-wite loading routine, so now you can load using full speed of your I/O

By the way,  did a comparison at and equal configuration before buying my Macpro 12 core, Mac is a little bit cheaper Stick out tongue

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 18:17
by FredB
Joined on Sat, Apr 01 2006, Montreal, Posts 669

I was at Paul's Mir Pro presentation in Montreal and I can tell that VSL have been working hard on a solution for Logic's AU limitation. The have a workaround. So they still care about Logic users.

Fred

Master: Imac I7 32Gb Late 2013 - - OsX 10.13.6
Slave: Corei7 6800k 64gb - Win 10
Soft: Logic X 10.4.4 - ProTools 12.x - VE Pro 6 - VI Pro 2 - MIR
Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 20:55
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 916
Dietz wrote:

Sigh. Why can't my words be taken with a pinch of salt, especially when I give a positive answer and add a BIG FAT SMILEY ...

So let me put it that way: Yes, we try to overcome the limitations of Logic once again on behalf of a tailor-made solution, developed escpecially for you.

... does this sound better now?

That sounds much better than "poor souls" who use Logic.

Your tailor-made solutions are always appreciated.

That's more like the Dietz I've seen on these forums.....Yes

Posted on Sun, Jun 19 2011 22:24
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1110
DG wrote:
Errikos wrote:

.....and I personally could not possibly work if I had to look at a Vista screen/buttons/architecture etc.

 

 

Luckily professionals using MIR use Windows 7. Stick out tongue

DG

Well, there had to be some compensations for using such a repulsive system  Smile

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 10:07
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Errikos wrote:
DG wrote:
Errikos wrote:

.....and I personally could not possibly work if I had to look at a Vista screen/buttons/architecture etc.

 

 

Luckily professionals using MIR use Windows 7. Stick out tongue

DG

Well, there had to be some compensations for using such a repulsive system  Smile

 

 Why do you think MIR is repulsive? Have you ever used it?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 10:51
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2730

MIR is not a "system" Windows is one Ick!

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 11:08
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Cyril wrote:

MIR is not a "system" Windows is one Ick!

 

Ah I see. So he was just being childish then? Stick out tongue

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 12:03
by patrik
Joined on Thu, Apr 05 2007, near Frankfurt, Germany, Posts 144

...sorry for having caused this debate by asking about logic's AU limitation ;-)

but I just have one more question concerning audio routing with MIR Pro...  

I have never used this feature with the current MIR simply because it seemed too complicated to send audio signals from my sequencer computer to the MIR slave and then send it back to the host.... so will it work with MIR Pro that I can send one or more audio tracks (or the output of a VEPro instance on a second slave being sent back to the host) of a project that also uses the new MIR Pro plugin directly to MIR (avoiding sequencer output-MIR input-MIr output-sequencer input)... rather like a effect plugin so to speak? 

Master:
Intel Xeon E5-2620 (x2)
Win 7 64bit
48 GB RAM
Behringer X32 (connected via USB 2)
Cubase 7.03

Slave 1 (MIR):
2 x Intel Xeon E5530; 2,4 GHZ
24 GB RAM
Windows 7
ASIO: EMU PCIe, ASIO4all
midi: M-Audio 4x4

Slave 2 (VEPro):
I7 940; 2,93 GHz
12 GB RAM
Windows VISTA SP2

Woodwinds 1 +2 extended, Brass 1 extended, Dimension Brass, Percussion extended, Elements standard, Vienna Imperial., Konzerthaus Organ, Special Keyboards, Vienna Choir extended, Solo Strings 1 + 2 extended, Chamber Strings 1 extended, Orchestral Strings 1 + 2 extended, Appasionata Strings 1 extended, Harps extended, Vienna MIR, Room Pack 2 + 3, Vienna Ensemble Pro
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 12:34
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Don't worry about it. Lot's of insecure people around. Wink

Regarding the audio input issue, this is not currently  possible with either VE Pro (in server mode) or MIR, so you're missing nothing. As far as MIR Pro is concerned I'm also relying on this feature, without knowing anything about it, so unless Dietz is prepared to spill the beans we're all out of luck for the time being.

DG 

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 14:48
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1110

Once you try Mac, you never go back Cool (I wonder why they never used this in advertisements...)

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 15:03
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Errikos wrote:

Once you try Mac, you never go back Cool (I wonder why they never used this in advertisements...)

 

Not for me. I was on Mac until 2004. Every time I do a studio upgrade I look at the pros and cons (the beauty of using cross-platform software) and make a decision. Even if I thought that Windows was ugly (which I do, but only with Aero switched on), the performance differential is so huge that OSX isn't an option for me. I also think that aesthetics are really personal, and personally I hate the look of OSX and Aero...! Wink

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 16:36
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1110
DG wrote:

 the performance differential is so huge that OSX isn't an option for me. I also think that aesthetics are really personal, and personally I hate the look of OSX and Aero...! Wink

I think you're blind or in a very small minority to challenge the Apple aesthetics as a Microsoft user. No PC owner I ever knew, during all incarnations of Windows and Mac OS has ever claimed superiority of PC aesthetics over Apple's; actually, even if they insist on using Windows for one reason or other, they always lament the absence of the sheer beauty offered by Apple. Let's also not address in detail who has been copying who GUI-wise all these years (poorly)...

However, let's say that the above remains in the eye of the beholder. I would like to ask you to comment on your point regarding the "performance differential that is so huge" between the best that both worlds have to offer. Since I have never claimed any 'techie' awards for myself, I'd like to know why that is the case. Your wording makes it sound as if there is no comparison between the two, and about that I certainly want to know. Does it only have to do with the amount of RAM currently accessible to Windows users, or is there more?

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 17:02
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 8056

(For the sake of easy reading - please open a seperate thread for the PC vs. Mac dabate. Thanks a lot.)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 17:02
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Errikos wrote:
DG wrote:

 the performance differential is so huge that OSX isn't an option for me. I also think that aesthetics are really personal, and personally I hate the look of OSX and Aero...! Wink

However, let's say that the above remains in the eye of the beholder. I would like to ask you to comment on your point regarding the "performance differential that is so huge" between the best that both worlds have to offer. Since I have never claimed any 'techie' awards for myself, I'd like to know why that is the case. Your wording makes it sound as if there is no comparison between the two, and about that I certainly want to know. Does it only have to do with the amount of RAM currently accessible to Windows users, or is there more?

 

The Holy Grail for Virtual Instrument users is performance at low latency. There are various tweaks that can be done at a BIOS level that have no equivalent on a Mac. this is why Logic can perform better on a hackintosk than on a similar Apple machine. We then have the OS to deal with. Again things can be turned off in Windows to improve performance, and the general OS is faster as well. When you add these things together there is a really large performance differential between Windows and OSX.

However, if you don't need to work at low latencies, for example if most of your work is not played live or you are mainly mixing, then the benefits are less, because there is no longer any need to work at a low buffer.

There are some illuminating comparisons and graphs available on www.dawbench.com if you are interested.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Jun 20 2011 17:05
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Dietz wrote:

(For the sake of easy reading - please open a seperate thread for the PC vs. Mac dabate. Thanks a lot.)

 

Dietz, I don't think there is any debate necessary. You either like the look of one operating system or the other. As far as performance is concerned the benchmarks speak for themselves.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
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