Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

182,180 users have contributed to 42,209 threads and 254,685 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 3 new thread(s), 10 new post(s) and 49 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Orchestration & Composition
  3. Your Music
  4. 097 STRING QUARTET with demostrations

  • 097 STRING QUARTET with demostrations

    S
    S

    I am posting a recent String Quartet on my web site http://web.me.com/stephenwbeatty/Web_Page/Welcome.html The title page is 097 String Quartet 4.

    This is a continuation of my earlier post "What's the Point"

    Regards, 

    Stephen W. Beatty
  • G
    G

    Very solid production, with great deal of attention given to musically shaping individual instrumetnts, which I always have great esteem for. Could use some polish in the spatial and eq departments.
  • B
    B

    Haven't posted in years, but came on to say that I LOVE 091 String Quartet 3. Excellent work, I have to say.
  • S
    S

    Thanks for the good comments. The string quartet has always been the gold standard for me in composition. I still struggle with the 2nd violin which seems to always be hanging somewhere in space. I also agree with the spatial and  eq. comments given that I have very little training in mixing. MIR has made a great difference in the mix , but there is always room for improvement in this department.

    Regards,

    Stephen W. Beatty 
  • W
    W

     It is a good composition.  You are right it is difficult to write well for standard string quartet. I think it is partly because it is an unbalanced ensemble.  Not yours here, but the string quartet in general.  The two violins against a single viola and cello are overpowering.  They absolutely dominate in timbre and level.  Also, the cello is forced to play bass lines, which is stupid because it is characteristically a tenor instrument.  The viola is utterly isolated in the middle. 

    All this is solved by changing it to a string quintet with an added bass, or getting rid of one violins for a trio, or changing one into a piano for that quartet, all of which are perfectly balanced and much better ensembles. Or the Trout Quintet - that is so beautiful an ensemble it is mesmerizing.  

    Of course the standard string quartet didn't seem to be any problem for Mozart, Beethoven or Haydn!

  • S
    S

    Then there is the issue of the wide variation in string quartets. Compare a late Haydn quartet with Elliot Carter first of third quartet or quartets by Ralph Shapey. I get the impression that Haydn's quartets were played at social event where polite conversation and drinking or eating was taking place. Needless to say Elliot Carters work would not work well in this venue. Anyway, I agree with your comments and will put on my to do list a quintet using the instruments used in the "Trout"

    Regards, 

    Stephen W. Beatty 
  • O
    O
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    Of course the standard string quartet didn't seem to be any problem for Mozart, Beethoven or Haydn!

    Indeed! There is a reason why composers have picked the string quartet to express their most personal musical thoughts.  It is perhaps one of the most balanced ensembles ever created.

    But, again, balance is subjective and very much dependant on musical material.  It may very well be true that for your musical material, the quartet raises more questions than answers them, and that a trio lends itself better to your ideas.  Perfectly valid.

    In any case, congratulations Warren!  Some wonderful musical ideas in your composition.

    Oh, and William I just had a listen to some of your work on your site.  Very thoughtful and heartfelt writing!

    Cheers,

    O
  • W
    W

     ozoufonoun,

    Yes, what you're talking about is based upon historical useage and you are right about that. For example, the cello used to be a bass instrument, essentially.  Though ask a cello player how much he likes playing a Bach orchestral suite in which every single note doubles the bass.  It was Beethoven who "set the cello free"  (not to mention the bass, writing soloisticially for it in the later symphonies). But it is a good point you make since the string quartet as a distinct ensemble is so famously represented by the great composers who - as I mentioned - managed to write some of their masterworks for it.  Like the late quartets of Beethoven which are maybe his greatest works. 

    I know that my saying this AGAINST the string quartet is bizarre in light of all this, but it is based on my actual physical sensations when listening to quartets in close quarters.  I actually find the sound of the violins so harsh that it causes me physical pain like fingernails scraping across a blackboard.  Even when they are played beautifully. And this sound dominates the viola utterly, because though as you correctly point out it can hold together harmony (as it normally does in orchestral string writing) it has a softer, far more delicate and retiring timbre which I immensely prefer (another weird opinion I know) to the violin.  And that beautiful sound is simply steam-rolled over by the extreme power of the violins.  If you sit right next to good players (or play in a quartet) you know what I'm talking about.  And so my obviously highly debatable opinion is based upon changing the basic useage of instruments from the historical precedent, as well as very subjective reactions, but is unavoidable to me.  Though again, I realize that these aspects can be overcome to create great music as all the famous composers have done. 

    To continue though with basic timbral characteristics of  ensembles, contrast what happens in a string quartet - 2 dominating violins taking over melody, cello forced to play bass and no longer available for countermelody or passionate singing in its tenor range, viola feebly sawing away at middle range harmony and almost never heard soloistically because of the necessity of that harmony - to what happens with a piano quartet:

    The piano can play harmony, as well as bass, freeing the cello and viola from their slavery and allowing them to be used as soloistically as desired at any moment. The piano is also perfect for a contrasting melody line - distinct and yet as retiring or forceful as needed and yet blends perfectly with all the strings.  And the use of only one violin allows a balance far more in keeping with the nature of  the instruments involved.   

    I mentioned the Trout quintet because it has an amazingly complex and very different timbre due to the use of a piano quartet with added bass.  The sound that the bass adds is strikingly deep and beautiful and all the instruments contrast and yet at the same time blend perfectly. It is an amazing piece in both composition and instrumentation.

    One other interesting ensemble - what to me is the most perfect combination of instruments in music (among small chamber groups) - the flute-harp-viola trio.  Just listen to something like the Debussy trio and you will hear an almost uncanny blend that allows each timbre to perfectly compliment each other, but also to contrast.  It is in fact extreme contrast COMBINED with extremely smooth blending. 

    Hey, why don't I just shut up and write some chamber music! 

  • O
    O

    Many good points as well as personal preferences William.

    If I will also turn my attention more to my personal preferences, then I will take your comment about the late Beethoven string quartets being among his greatest works, give it a huge thumbs up, and then up the ante:  They are among my favorite works from any composer, any musician, any time and place. 

    Trout is indeed a fantastic work.  Heck, for pure soothing blend and balance, as a guitarist I would argue that nothing stands up to a flute and guitar duo, but then again, I actually like the rawness and sometimes strident quality of the string quartet. 

    Most importantly though, you are right:  Let's shut up and write some stuff!  [:D]
  • S
    S

    Thanks, Omid and William for the discussion. Beautiful web site Omid! I especially liked the picture of you and some older gentleman looking at each other with mirthful expressons. I don't know if you all know about the classical archives. http://www.classicalarchives.com  It is a well organized web site offering mp3 and midi files. Williams comments about the "Trout" quintet lead me to download the midi files from this site as a starting point to compose a quintet with similar intsrumentation. The files include the Andantino, 5 Variations, Allegretto and the finale allegro giusto. I also ordered the score from Dover. We are straddled between two worlds the traditional world of scores and players and the world of midi notation and a digital player MIR. For me, the realization of composed music relies on the latter and this world has developed in an astounding way in the past 30 years, finally it is becoming a real performance venue. By the way the late Beethoven String Quartets are also available in midi files. The  three of us span the USA, from FL to CO to CA also astounding, to be able to have a conversation.

    Regards,

    Stephen W. Beatty      
  • O
    O
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    The  three of us span the USA, from FL to CO to CA also astounding, to be able to have a conversation.

    I know, the world keeps expanding and getting smaller at the same time. 

    O
  • O
    O

    BTW, here is a quick and dirty mockup of the beginning of the slow movement from the Op.135 quartet, arranged here for full strings a la Bernstein with the Vienna Philharmonic.

    http://omidzoufonoun.com/portfolio/beethoven_op.135.mp3

    No MIR, and could certainly use a lot more finessing to get the expression right, but it was a fun little exercise given my reverence for this music.

    O
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on