Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
Options
Go to last post
Posted on Thu, Aug 04 2011 17:28
by The Lighthouse Sleeper
Joined on Tue, Aug 02 2011, The ghostly, secretive fens of Eastern England., Posts 5
Hello. As a prospective purchaser looking at spending quite a lot of money (to me, at least) on VSL libraries I was wondering what would happen if the key developed a fault. (Or got physically broken, although I'm very careful about that sort of thing).

I understand that the key, with the licences on it, would need to be returned to the manufacturer. My question is:- does it have to be returned to Austria directly or is there an arrangement to return it to a national distributor. As I'm British this would obviously need to be a British based company in my case. (So far as I know it's Time+Space here - please put me right if I'm mistaken). The reason for this question is the problem of insured delivery to other countries. As the key could be, effectively, worth several thousand pounds it would need to be sent by a very reliable service and this is easier if it's to another address in the same country, in my belief.

I appreciate that this is a very pessimistic way to look at things but I would be grateful if someone could give me a reliable answer - someone from the company would obviously be best but if anyone has had the misfortune to have a broken key I would be interested to hear how it was dealt with.

Thanks very much for your attention.
Posted on Sat, Aug 06 2011 10:34
by Stefan
Joined on Tue, Oct 10 2006, Posts 524

Hello Lighthouse Sleeper,


First, many thanks for your interest in the Vienna Symphonic Library!


In case of a broken or faulty key, customers have to send the key to
our office, or our distributor's office, to enable us to take a look at
the damage. Time & Space ceased to be our distributor for the UK, the German company Best Service took over about a year ago.

Generally, customers with a broken key are best advised to contact us at .
UK customers would then be asked to send the key with a tracking
possibility (UPS, registered letter, etc.) to our office in Vienna,
since it won't make a difference for you if you send it to Germany, or
Austria. We'll then take a look at the key and get back to you as soon as possible.


If the
key broke within the warranty period, and without signs of physical damage, you'll get
the new key and the replacement license(s) for free. Warranty is two years, please include invoice for the key purchase if the warranty applies.

If the
warranty period has expired, it might be necessary to purchase replacement licenses for a handling fee of EUR 30 +
EUR 20 per license. A replacement key costs the regular price of EUR 24 / GBP 20.

As a quick temporary solution in cases like this
we recommend to purchase a new eLicenser key (ViennaKey, Steinberg Key,
Arturia Key, etc.) before you send the broken key to us - we can then
send you a demo license which will enable you to complete projects that
you might be working on, until the situation with the broken key is resolved.


I hope that you find this information helpful.

Kind regards from Vienna,


Stefan


Stefan Steinbauer
Sales Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Aug 06 2011 17:56
by The Lighthouse Sleeper
Joined on Tue, Aug 02 2011, The ghostly, secretive fens of Eastern England., Posts 5
Hello Stefan - that's very helpful, thanks.
Posted on Sun, Aug 07 2011 09:54
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600
Stefan wrote:

In case of a broken or faulty key......


 

Whoa.......  that is a scarey high cost that has got me very concerned.  My VSL key has 60 VSL licences. although most of that was bought as one package (The Super Package), it ends up with a lot of separate licences, So at the cost of 20Euro per licence, that would cost me over 1200 Euros - yes that's right, one thousand two hundred euros, just to get what I have already paid for back into a new key,

So does this mean we need to buy a new key every 2 years and move all licenses to the new key,

Posted on Sun, Aug 07 2011 10:20
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
andyjh wrote:
Stefan wrote:

In case of a broken or faulty key......


 

Whoa.......  that is a scarey high cost that has got me very concerned.  My VSL key has 60 VSL licences. although most of that was bought as one package (The Super Package), it ends up with a lot of separate licences, So at the cost of 20Euro per licence, that would cost me over 1200 Euros - yes that's right, one thousand two hundred euros, just to get what I have already paid for back into a new key,

So does this mean we need to buy a new key every 2 years and move all licenses to the new key,

 

Unless you have insurance, I would recommend this.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Aug 07 2011 18:29
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

This is rather strange.

If the Dongle is broken and returned to VSL when if it is outside of the guarantee period and you have to pay the cost of a new dongle then that is straightforward.

However the license itself is not subject to a guarantee period so I cannot see how DG's suggestion to purchase a VSL dongle every 24 months to avoid re-license fees is a viable solution.  I suspect if the terms and conditions of the dongle guarantee are examined closely you will find they don't extent to the licenses held on the dongle - purely it's functionality as a storage device.

I do believe a more transparent system is urgently needed.

The dongle is only a copyright protection device of minimal cost yet it has the potetnial to hold many thousands of £/€/$ of valuable licenses.

My understanding has always been if a dongle containing the licenses becomes faulty and if it is returned to VSL and found to be so then all the licenses should be restored to a new dongle at a cost not exceeding the price of a new dongle.

The problem could be how can VSL confirm if the dongle held the licenses in the first place? If there has been physical damage to the key - liquid, fire, impact and it doesn't work in the owner's computer then there is every chance that VSL or their agents will have no way of verifying if the licences were ever on the key.

Unfortunately insurance to protect against accidental damage or theft to a dongle is either extremely expensive or doesn't actually provide full cover if all the exclusions, excesses and limitations are taken into account.

I think as the potential finacial loss due to dongle issues spirals with each new library/product released (and affects VSL's most loyal customers most) then a system that could avoid the financial catastrophy of a simple dongle accident/theft should be investigated further.

My understanding is that, under the current somewhat vague situation, someone could purchase a new set of licenses costing thousands of euros, accidentally kick the dongle sticking out of their computer and loose a hefty wad of money!

My experience of VSL is an exemplary company with great customer service but there do appear to be some grey areas concerning the protection key side of things. 

Julian

Posted on Sun, Aug 07 2011 19:49
by The Minstrel
Joined on Fri, Oct 16 2009, Sweden, Posts 119
Stefan wrote:

If the
warranty period has expired, it might be necessary to purchase replacement licenses for a handling fee of EUR 30 +
EUR 20 per license. A replacement key costs the regular price of EUR 24 / GBP 20.


This was troubling to read, and will impact decisions on whether to expand my palette of VSL instruments or not. I've got 9 licenses stored on my key, and the cost of replacing a faulty key with these licenses alone would be a hard blow for me, being a hobbyist with a limited budget to spend on my passion. I was planning on getting some of the download instruments, not so sure anymore.

Posted on Sun, Aug 07 2011 20:51
by The Lighthouse Sleeper
Joined on Tue, Aug 02 2011, The ghostly, secretive fens of Eastern England., Posts 5
Hello again - can someone please tell me if the big DVD packages - the "Super Pack" and the "Symphonic Cube" have one licence for everything or do they have one licence for each collection contained within them? Thanks very much.
Posted on Sun, Aug 07 2011 22:48
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 The Super package comes with 41 licences, although it is bought as one package,  it would cost 850 Euros (820 + 30 Euros) to get the licences put back into a faulty key.

Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 09:47
by Jann
Joined on Sat, Jan 18 2003, Posts 50

I have to agree that the current policy of VSL in case of a damaged dongle is quite absurd.

Being forced to pay 20 Euros for each single license in case a dongle is damaged?

That's like turning the misfortune of your customers into a profitable business!


It means that those customers who have invested a lot of money in VSL libraries and who therefore are the greatest supporters of VSL as a company are punished the most, because they will literally have to pay hundreds of Euros to replace a damaged dongle! 

I think that is VERY unfair and unreasonable.


If I had known this policy before purchasing licenses I would have thought twice about purchasing any license.

It would be much more reasonable if we could simply back up each license in a non-activated state on a spare dongle, so that in the case a dongle is damaged, we would simply be able to send the damaged dongle to VSL and activate the licenses on the spare dongle.

Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 09:54
by ToTeMusik
Joined on Sat, Jan 02 2010, Posts 33

Hello,

What if the iLok is so much damaged, mayby by fire that there is no possibility to read anything from it? Or it get stolen? I do not understand why there is no option of an unique "Mac" Address, in the iLok like on W-LAN-Cards which is connected to the License.
In case of an unfortunate event VSL could change the "Mac" Address to the new buyed iLok, and so the licenses are still only on one key.
To avoid abuse the iLok could check in a period of time (all 15-30 days) if the "Mac" Address is valid. The only thing what´s needed is an internet-connection. And that´s something we all have. :-)

regards

Torsten

Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 10:28
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
  1. VSL doesn't use iLok
  2. We don't all have Internet connections on our production machines.

DG 

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 10:41
by ToTeMusik
Joined on Sat, Jan 02 2010, Posts 33
DG wrote:
  1. VSL doesn't use iLok
  2. We don't all have Internet connections on our production machines.

DG 

1. You´re right. My fault. e-licenser but does not change anything

2. But you must have one to download the license ones. And I think it´s more welcome to let it check periodic, than pay again for something you have allready payed for, right? :-)

regards

Torsten

Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 10:54
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
ToTeMusik wrote:

2. But you must have one to download the license ones. And I think it´s more welcome to let it check periodic, than pay again for something you have allready payed for, right? :-)

regards

Torsten

 

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I have no wish to dismantle my studios every few days just because some people don't wish to purchase a new dongle every couple of years.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 10:59
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
ToTeMusik wrote:
DG wrote:
  1. VSL doesn't use iLok
  2. We don't all have Internet connections on our production machines.

DG 

1. You´re right. My fault. e-licenser but does not change anything

2. But you must have one to download the license ones. And I think it´s more welcome to let it check periodic, than pay again for something you have allready payed for, right? :-)

regards

Torsten

Couldn't agree more - as it is we all have to do periodic updates to the e-licensor software on our studio machines so to have periodic licenses checks would be far more palatable than living with the potentially very high cost of re-placing licenses lost from a damaged or mislaid key.

Insurance against such issues may be available but is generally very expensive and with numerous exclusions/excesses and even if viable any claim would likely make the total policy re-newal cost rise sbstantially such is the modus operandi of insurance companies.

Julian

Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 12:32
by ToTeMusik
Joined on Sat, Jan 02 2010, Posts 33
DG wrote:
ToTeMusik wrote:

2. But you must have one to download the license ones. And I think it´s more welcome to let it check periodic, than pay again for something you have allready payed for, right? :-)

regards

Torsten

 

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I have no wish to dismantle my studios every few days just because some people don't wish to purchase a new dongle every couple of years.

DG

DG do I get you right that you buy every two (couple) years a new key and switch your license over?
I´m thinking about possible problems while transfering them over.

I do not know where you live but in germany you have 2 years guarantee BUT this is divided in one year gurantee and one warranty (that means, that you have to prove that the hardware-damage was there on the day you bought it). So in a case of 
an unfortunate event you can hope that the manufacturer is in a good mode...

And what will you do if someone breaks into your studio and steal your keys with all your license or its totaly destroyed by what ever?
If I understand VSL right than you have to buy a new key AND all products for full price again.
If so I think not many people here on this forum can handle this and will! :-)
I could not and thats the reason I´ve stopped to take it with my Laptop for working outside.

Another way could be to buy a single key for each License to keep the lost low, of course your PC will look then like a mushroom. :-D

regards

Torsten

Posted on Mon, Aug 08 2011 22:02
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236
ToTeMusik wrote:
in germany you have 2 years guarantee BUT this is divided in one year gurantee and one warranty

This is wrong, and often misunderstood.

In Germany you have warranty (Gewaehrleistung) ensured by law, and this is, where after the first year you have to prove that the damage has been there before (Beweislastumkehr)

Guarantee (Garantie) is given you by the manufacturer on a voluntary base, and it's scope depends entirely on the terms of the company.

So if VSL guarantees you the functionality of their dongle for 2 years, is really means 2 years without any restrictions. If they would give you 5 years, it would be 5. If they'd give you not any guarantee at all the legal warranty would come in.

Posted on Thu, Aug 11 2011 21:03
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1942

 

The Lighthouse Sleeper wrote:
... if anyone has had the misfortune to have a broken key I would be interested to hear how it was dealt with. Thanks very much for your attention.
 I broke a Steinberg key with most of my VSL licenses residing on it. it was an old key; this happened in 2009 or 2010 with a ca 2003 key. It was pretty tore up, in two pieces. I sent it to VSL in Southern California. I had failed to register it properly with Steinberg, they'd changed their whole M.O. upon the Yamaha takeover and had to resort to their support to even have the information to register it here! All of my licenses were replaced at no cost to me. And both companies support was ultra excellent.

I don't know if this is unusual or if there has been a change in policy but this anecdote is true.

MacBookPro 18,3
Apple M1 Pro: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9

Mac OS 12.3.1
VE Pro 7.1298, Nuendo 11.0.41
Posted on Fri, Aug 12 2011 10:42
by ToTeMusik
Joined on Sat, Jan 02 2010, Posts 33

I wounder how long it took to get all this done?
It´s nice to hear that VSL and Steinberg worked fast but how long you could not work?

And still there´s the question what will happen in a case of stealing/total lost.

I remember a threat here a while ago where someone got stolen his MAC? with all Sticks on it but haven´t heard anything about the end of the story.

regards

Torsten

Posted on Fri, Aug 12 2011 19:07
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1942

I lost almost no time, maybe a couple of days. Christian here provided me with demo licenses in the meantime. For one option, one can buy a Vienna Key which has 180 starts for all licenses, which I did in addition. 

This happened right before a (US) holiday. There was no one answering Steinberg phones, but I got an email response within a couple of hours, which was fortunate as there could have been four days I couldn't have moved at all on this.

MacBookPro 18,3
Apple M1 Pro: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9

Mac OS 12.3.1
VE Pro 7.1298, Nuendo 11.0.41
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.