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VSL recorders, lute, mandolin, Viola d'amore?
Last post Tue, May 01 2012 by SJSF, 36 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Sep 13 2011 03:24
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582
iscorefilm wrote:

It just doesn't make sense for VSL to ignore the request, yet EW would make such a library.

 

 

...but have they created such a library yet. 

Why?  because there isn't enough of a demand right now.  That's my point!  I think there is a demand for a Boys/Girls Choir, more so than for recorders and lutes anyway.  Actually due to the success of the Dimension Brass VSL is probably building on that with other Dimension offerings.  But that's just a guess. 

I never said VSL only caters to filmscorers.  VSL is like any other business.  They cater to a demand.  Whether to filmscorers, Classical Composers, Producers, students at university, etc.

BTW, back in the 80's, I was quite the Human Beat Boxer.  If VSL needs a Human Beat Box player, let me know.  I'd be honored to fly out to Vienna and offer my talentsCool 


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sat, Apr 28 2012 23:41
by nunoise
Joined on Thu, Jul 24 2008, Posts 4

indeed, one would have thought that the instruments you mentioned would have been a high priority as compared to Overdive and the VSL upriight bass.

one would think that the entire family of recorders would be (should have been) a perfect product for VSL.

sometimes demand is created after a product is brought to market.

joe

iscorefilm wrote:

Does VSL have any plans to add any of these? These are the instruments I personally would like to see sampled well.

If anything, does anyone know who produces any of these with high quality and flexibility. I don't expect things to be as good as VSL, but most other options are no where near as flexible. Collections like RA are nice, but in some cases the offerings are well below par. The Bagpipes are horrendous! I don't expect VSL to look into bagpipes or anything (although a single ethnic collection would certainly be a wonderful treat!) but I would like to see certain more common instruments done, like recorders, etc.

-Sean

P.S. I know I'm probalby not the first to ask this, but after searching for recorders and not finding anything... I thought I'd ask.

Posted on Sun, Apr 29 2012 00:09
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, Concord CA, Posts 207

RA is truly awful, and the more narrowly focused products from that vendor aren't much better. For the ethnic stuff, there are lots of possibilities now, and the revised Ethno World 5 is now (finally) one of the better choices.

As for baroque and earlier, Soniccouture came out with a small but excellent collection last year that I highly recommend. And later this month, Best Service has Eduarado Tarilonte's ancient instruments collection, but it unfortunately uses the Yellow Tools Engine.

I sold my Moeck Rothenberg Recorders (SS, S, A, and T -- no B) to a close friend a few years back, after finally picking up the flute. I just didn't enjoy playing Baroque Recorder anymore at that point, compared to Modern Flute. But the sample libraries are not very helpful.

You could go with Sampletekk for a more natural tone but little expression, or Precisionsound for lots of expression but too much baked-in vibrato and other problems of that nature -- it is designed for New Age and Film Scoring vs. authentic playing.

There's been a lot of activity regarding Recorders of late. Even Ethno World has a few somewhat usable ones.

I may just buy another Alto Recorder at some point (my favourite voicing). Technology has improved since the Moeck designs of the 70's/80's. But maybe VSL will surprise us, since there probably is an actual need for these amongst volume customers (unlike Crumhorn).

Posted on Sun, Apr 29 2012 01:02
by nunoise
Joined on Thu, Jul 24 2008, Posts 4

thanks for these suggestions.

the online demos of the Sampletekk recorders sound promising.

the Sonic Couture stuff is not bad.

have you checked out Bolder Sounds' "BOB Early Music"?

seems ironic to be discussing these instruments from third party developers on the VSL forum.

sorry but what is "RA"?

mhschmieder wrote:

RA is truly awful, and the more narrowly focused products from that vendor aren't much better. For the ethnic stuff, there are lots of possibilities now, and the revised Ethno World 5 is now (finally) one of the better choices.

As for baroque and earlier, Soniccouture came out with a small but excellent collection last year that I highly recommend. And later this month, Best Service has Eduarado Tarilonte's ancient instruments collection, but it unfortunately uses the Yellow Tools Engine.

I sold my Moeck Rothenberg Recorders (SS, S, A, and T -- no B) to a close friend a few years back, after finally picking up the flute. I just didn't enjoy playing Baroque Recorder anymore at that point, compared to Modern Flute. But the sample libraries are not very helpful.

You could go with Sampletekk for a more natural tone but little expression, or Precisionsound for lots of expression but too much baked-in vibrato and other problems of that nature -- it is designed for New Age and Film Scoring vs. authentic playing.

There's been a lot of activity regarding Recorders of late. Even Ethno World has a few somewhat usable ones.

I may just buy another Alto Recorder at some point (my favourite voicing). Technology has improved since the Moeck designs of the 70's/80's. But maybe VSL will surprise us, since there probably is an actual need for these amongst volume customers (unlike Crumhorn).

Posted on Sun, Apr 29 2012 01:28
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, Concord CA, Posts 207

Dennis Burns is a great person and a talented sampler and developer, and has really stepped up his game these past two years after finally deciding to take the Kontakt platform super-seriously and devote a lot of energy to scripting.

BOB Early Music is old but still quite useful, as are his unusual folk instruments (such as a fretless banjo, which I actually used in a soundtrack and was just what the doctor ordered to distinguish two dueling banjos from each other).

Chances are high that Bolder Sounds will issue new products eventually that take some of these older and smaller sample sets to the next level, as they've already been doing that in conjunction with brand-new releases.

RA is RA. What more do you need to know? That's the product name, so there isn't much else to say on the matter.

Posted on Sun, Apr 29 2012 01:29
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

Someone understands!!! Yay! lol

nunoise, I'm glad you can see why I feel like it is only appropriate that VSL have some of these offerings. The other libraries mentioned are... workable? But my biggest complaint is that none of these instruments have been sampled with the versatility and quality standards that VSL maintains. RA is by East West. Search "EWQL RA" and you'll find it. The demo's will sound decent, but I should warn that they are not flexible at all. They don't sound bad, but RA is nearly unusable (imo) because of how many errors exist in the library. After using VSL, one would quickly find that RA lacks articulations completely and some of the articulations (bagpipes) aren't even usable as a plausible instrument.

All the more reason why we need this from VSL.

-Sean

Posted on Mon, Apr 30 2012 18:34
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

I'd love to have VSL recorders and medieval/ancient instruments.   I just had to use another company's recorders on a track and they were o.k., but not as good as VSL instruments.  Also, it would be very good to be able to totally integrate them into Vienna Ensemble.  Though with MIR Pro, it is easy to use an external sound source and place it right on stage next to the VSL instruments - amazing!

I don't agree that these are really unusual sounds to use.  In film scoring and other use, it is fairly common to use ancient or "rare" instruments  like the recorder or lute or others.   For example, remember the great score to the 70s Three Musketeers by Michel Legrand  - that  integrated recorders into the score itself, not just onscreen "period" music.  

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 01:51
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, Concord CA, Posts 207

I finally got around to comparing all 20 or so of my harpsichord sound sources last night, and VSL's harpsichord came out the clear winner by a country mile; albeit with fewer choices than other libraries in terms of stops, registers, etc.

It is shameful how bad most of the others are -- especially the Realsamples historic libraries. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on those. They are almost completely unusable. The idea behind them is interesting and should provide a LOT of variety, but the execution is sloppy, and scripting is almost non-existant.

The next-best source is Soniccouture's recent Conservatoire Collection (which also includes a Theorbo and a Baroque Guitar). The output is insanely low, and this is coming from someone who generally records at -24 dBFS! That's my main complaint, aside from it being a somewhat limited collection (yet well-recorded and pretty good scripting). It offers a French and Flemish Harpsichord (I generally detest the latter).

Surprisingly, after last week's Version 4 update, Pianoteq is now in the race finally, but for some reason their Grimaldi emulation sounds more like a Blanchet model than the one labeled Blanchet! In some ways this is the most playable one out there, and the timbre is fairly convincing finally. But it offers no variation on 2 x 8', 8' + 4', etc. (unless I missed that on a deeper editing page).

Precisionsound's Blanchet library is also quite good, but closer listening revealed some phasing issues and inconsistencies that ultimately put it a bit behind Soniccouture and Pianoteq. It's a perfectly usable library though, if not soloed (for which purpose I will now use VSL).

Everything else trails FAR FAR behind! That includes the Realsamples collections (English, Spinet, Lute-Harpsichord, Italian, French, Dutch, Dulcitone), EWQLSO, Bolder Sounds (ancient, so no surprise, and their newer libraries are wonderful and even some of their older/smaller ones, so I wouldn't rule them out for future releases), and MachFive (from Acoustisamples, I think). Also even my earlier favourite years ago, which was MOTU Symphonic Instrument. It sounds a bit compressed and phasey compared to newer offerings.

Up until a few years back, I owned a Roland C-80 Digital Harpsichord. It was fun for a few years, but ultimately disappointing as it sounds phasey and compressed as well as a bit baked-in even when "dry", which is typical of Roland. The newer C-30 is a big improvement but I can't see spending $4000 for it, and also only one or two of its models sound good. Maybe the next rev will be "the one".

Anyway, this is all just meant to point towards why I would like to see VSL go for some of the other ancient instruments, as even the somewhat limited Harpsichord library shows that anything they come out with will be miles ahead of anything else currently available.

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 02:36
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

mhschmieder,


For me, VSL's harpsichord and Spitfire's are the only two I've ever liked. Neither are QUITE to my liking, but everything else out there is subpar (imo).


-Sean

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 03:42
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, Concord CA, Posts 207

Thanks for mentioning Spitfire -- I've been meaning to get around to buying some of their libraries, but didn't even know they had covered the harpsichord! presumably not a standalone library like the harp. I'll look into it shortly.

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 04:25
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, Concord CA, Posts 207

Oh, I see -- it's brand new, and for some reason wasn't announced anywhere but their own website. No wonder I didn't see it.

Wow, this sounds fabulous, and I like all the mic choices (including Decca-tree)! This is a no-brainer. I need several haprsichord and church organ choices, so as wonderful as the ones from VSL are, they will never be quite enough.

Warning to those who visit the Spitfire Harpsichord video demo: the voice-over is so soft you'll need to remove all trim from your active monitors, but then be prepared to turn it down once the musical content starts!

Also, I see the discount on their news page, but it doesn't show up when I try to purchase. Maybe it expired already? I don't understand these vendors that have so many "secret releases" and sales that people on their mailing list don't even hear about! Who has time to visit a bunch of vendors' websites now and then just to see what's up? I go to Sonic State and KVR News to see what's coming out.

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 08:15
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7788

Dear Forum Members,

Just a friendly reminder - please restrict the amount of discussions concerning 3rd-party products to an inevitable minimum. Thanks for your understanding!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 18:02
by Mark Schmieder
Joined on Mon, May 07 2007, Concord CA, Posts 207

Sorry; it was why I initially didn't say much and didn't mention the vendor. After the additional responses I figured I had misjudged in my caution. I didn't see a way to delete posts but can go back and just delete the content so they're all blank, if that is preferred.

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 18:24
by nunoise
Joined on Thu, Jul 24 2008, Posts 4

with no disrespect to anyone, i'll just quote from my previous post:

"seems ironic to be discussing these instruments from third party developers on the VSL forum."

perhaps some good can come from all of this.

Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 20:43
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7788

No need to change anything in previous posts - it was just a friendly reminder, to keep things in perspective. ;-)

Like I wrote in another post in a similar thread: "Never say never". Let's see what new (or actually "old"?) VSL instruments the future will bring.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, May 01 2012 22:53
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

Dietz,

I state this with the utmost respect in mind. The thing is... I realized that it might just be easier to avoid talking about other companies on here... if... VSL actually sampled recorders.. a lute, etc. I realize the talk has lately been harpsichords but I thought the point was humerous, slightly valid, and worth stating. Wink

-Sean

P.S. Hint hint, wink wink, what users want, cough cough...

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