Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
VSL vs Spitfire Audio
Last post Fri, Apr 01 2016 by Dietz, 58 replies.
Options
Go to last post
3 Pages123>
Posted on Tue, Sep 20 2011 23:41
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

Anyone have any thoughts on Spitfire's modules?

They're the first company I've ever liked any orchestral samples from aside from VSL. The woodwinds blend better than any other library, imo. The strings have a few things I like more, like being a little less lifeless. Although, depending on the assumed 'divisi string library' we'll see from VSL... this may not be an issue if it's divisi enough to create a very fluid performance. Although, most things I like about VSL more for strings, I just found a few things I liked about spitfire also that promt this consideration. The spitfire trumpet demo had a few things I really liked a lot, but with a couple I thought VSL was better on. Mostly it was an even match, with benefits in both.


Either way, I've considered getting Albion (as I in NO WAY could afford a $19k brass library, a price that their demo's haven't quite lived up to). With not having a Violin II from VSL, and with my liking the sound from Spitfire as a 'VSL gap filler', I think that they'd make a great adition to my VSL collection (something I've yet to say about anyone else). But, the limitiations of 'ensemble only' really bother me in Albion. Anyone own it and have used it with VSL? Any thoughts on the ensemble restriction in use with VSL samples also? Any thoughts at all?

Thanks,

-Sean

Posted on Sat, Sep 24 2011 11:35
by vosk
Joined on Tue, Jul 08 2008, Posts 133

Spitfire Strings, Brass and Woods not sold. :) $19k - it's just a joke.:)

Posted on Sat, Sep 24 2011 14:27
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

I'm glad someone finally responded! lol I'll add a little to what I said though, to clarify my views of this comparison.

I'm not a fan of wet samples usually, but I'd rather have entirely wet with a good room or entirely dry. I like spitfire as an addition in that sense, but not as a replacement library by any means. I should have also asked what people think VSL does better and spitfire does better. No library has 100 perfect everything so I imagine someone on here has to like a few things on both sides.

Spitfire's trumpet has much louder releases than VSL. This can add a very human sound to the performance and it can be unwanted also. I wish this was available as a modifable option (Either a fader or another option anyway).

I like the fat and warm tone of spitfire's strings, but I've yet to do some real comparing of my VSL library, with tape/sat plugins, etc. to really compare.

My woodwinds comment- I like VSL woodwinds in every way. I only thought that the blend had a far more natural blend in spitfire's demo's than anything I've been able to accomplish. I like that blend a lot. But otherwise, I like VSL woodwinds far more.

I love their percussion. I've never been a big fan of VSL's percussion. I don't have the full perc library at my disposal, but from demo's only... there are benefits on both sides it seems. I think I'd prefer to own both in the end, rather than one over the other.

-Sean

Posted on Sat, Sep 24 2011 17:11
by noldar12
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 582

From information in other forums, if I understand things correctly (I could be wrong), first, there are a very limited number of licenses for Spitfire, and when they are gone, they are gone, and second, one of the requirements for purchasing the libraries is that you will not use them in commercial releases, but only for mock-ups.  The use of live musicians for the final product is required.  Spitfire is specifically aimed at top tier professional (primarily film) composers.

In short, Spitfire (as apart from their more generic Albion) has a very specific, and very limited, target market, and represents a very different marketing philosophy from VSL.

Posted on Sat, Sep 24 2011 17:47
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

You are correct about their license and marketing.

The reason why I think this is worth discussing though, is that there are many things VSL users may desire from VSL's future products. VSL's legato interim patches are limited by 1. Why not more? I have had instances where I hear a subtle machine gun effect because of quickly going back over the same notes, or a kind of fanfaring c g, c g. There are small things that matter. I don't know that Spitfire is any different. But I do know that I liked the trumpet release samples and other things I wish I either had with VSL, or at least had the option of choosing with VSL.

-Sean

Posted on Sun, Sep 25 2011 03:56
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582
noldar12 wrote:

From information in other forums, if I understand things correctly (I could be wrong), first, there are a very limited number of licenses for Spitfire, and when they are gone, they are gone, and second, one of the requirements for purchasing the libraries is that you will not use them in commercial releases, but only for mock-ups. 

 

Hmmm. I don't know, if I'm going to drop 19 grand on a sample library I think I have the right to use them however I darn well please.  I can't stand arrogance in any company let alone a sample library.  What reason do they have to limit the use of their product to mock ups.  I wonder how their customer support is.   

That aside, as much as I adore VSL I think a composer should have other options on hand.  If you use VSL all the time in every project you ever work on your music will develope a homogenous sound to it.  It's like hiring the same trumpet player over and over on all of your projects.  You may really like that trumpet player but it's nice to have some variety every once in a while.  I've been crossing over into other genres of music and I'm finding that VSL can be a bit difficult to work with when you're trying to do a string arrangement for a Pop song or Hard Rock.  Of course, it could be that I need to remove myself from the Classical mentality when composing.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Sep 25 2011 05:04
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499
jasensmith wrote:
if I'm going to drop 19 grand on a sample library I think I have the right to use them however I darn well please.

I agree. I understand the decision... but I still believe I should have total control I have other reasons for why I believe musicians will not be out of work. I personally would prefer live musicians, but until I have access to it I want the best sound possible. If I had all of Spitfire, I'd love to use it. But if I made enough money to hire real performers, I'd be doing that. I want the best sounds possible 1- for my own enjoyment and 2- while I am building my name

jasensmith wrote:
That aside, as much as I adore VSL I think a composer should have other options on hand.

I've seen a lot of down-talk from VSL users (not so much here, but elsewhere) on Spitfire's modules. Personally, I've liked very little out of East West and I see many users on here owning VSL and EW, praising both. But I think Spitfire is far better than EW, imo and that their libraries have advantages and disadvantages and in every way they are just as viable as VSL on several different things. I think Spitfire is producing very high quality instruments.

I like how much Albion comes with out-of-box. For the price, I think they offer a great bundle. It's certainly restrictive in it's limitations, but for producing fast and usable results and for adding to what I already own with VSL... it is a very useful offering. I plan to get it fairly soon. I've been having a very hard time deciding on whether I want to purchase VE Pro, Albion, or Spitfire percussion right now.

-Sean

Posted on Sun, Sep 25 2011 08:57
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
jasensmith wrote:

Hmmm. I don't know, if I'm going to drop 19 grand on a sample library I think I have the right to use them however I darn well please.  I can't stand arrogance in any company let alone a sample library.  What reason do they have to limit the use of their product to mock ups.  I wonder how their customer support is.   

 

Firstly I don't know whether or not the samples are limited to mock-ups, or not, but you only have a right to do what you are sold a licence for. This is also the basis that composers work to.

However, what I do know is that this library is only available to people who regularly use live players, and the players on the recordings would probably not have agreed to play had this been any other way. It has nothing to do with arrogance. It has to do with whart has been agreed with the musicians.

 

jasensmith wrote:

That aside, as much as I adore VSL I think a composer should have other options on hand.  If you use VSL all the time in every project you ever work on your music will develope a homogenous sound to it.  It's like hiring the same trumpet player over and over on all of your projects.  You may really like that trumpet player but it's nice to have some variety every once in a while.  I've been crossing over into other genres of music and I'm finding that VSL can be a bit difficult to work with when you're trying to do a string arrangement for a Pop song or Hard Rock.  Of course, it could be that I need to remove myself from the Classical mentality when composing.

 

There is some truth to his, in the same way that if you hire the LSO for all your performances, they will all sound like the LSO. However, I don't really see that as a deep-seated problem.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Oct 22 2011 07:37
by w21994
Joined on Fri, May 14 2004, Posts 19

 I agree with your observation of Spitfire's demo. Spitfire's sound far superior in a sense the whole orchestra sounds blended very well, not only the woodwinds. The sound it's very close to the Hollywood Orchestra sound. Although some users might not like the wet sound (it seems it comes default that way) I don't mind. It's too pricey...

Posted on Thu, Oct 27 2011 15:46
by mike connelly
Joined on Wed, Apr 28 2004, Posts 260

Did I have a post deleted on this thread or did it just not get posted for whatever reason?  Weird.

Posted on Thu, Oct 27 2011 17:09
by Fiery Angel
Joined on Mon, Nov 07 2005, Milton ON, Posts 311

I own Spitfire Albion as well as their Harp and I do love the organic sound of their library.  That said, VSL always finds a place in my music.  I find it still to be the best as far as over all quality, flexbility and sound.  No other library as a whole matches the legatos from VSL.  I don't regret buying any of the various products I've purchased from them over the years.  Albion blends quite beautifully with VSL IMO.

I compose therefore I am.
Posted on Thu, Oct 27 2011 19:14
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499
Fiery Angel wrote:
Albion blends quite beautifully with VSL IMO.

Thank you!! I've been wanting feedback on that. Good to hear! VSL and Spitfire are the only two orchestral companies to ever impress me sound-wise so I eventually plan to own Spitfire's Albion and percussion libraries soon enough. But I have limited myself entirely to wait until VE5 cause I can't make up my mind on anything lately. Confused

-Sean

Posted on Thu, Oct 27 2011 19:37
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7580
mike connelly wrote:

Did I have a post deleted on this thread or did it just not get posted for whatever reason?  Weird.

Something must have gone wrong while your message was sent to the server. If a message gets deleted on purpose, the forum's engine would inform you with a mail to your user account.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Oct 27 2011 20:08
by w21994
Joined on Fri, May 14 2004, Posts 19

There is no question that VSL samples are top. But I do believe it has some issues in the final mix when VSL is used as a stand alone orchestra. My observation doesn't deal with the quality of the samples but the spacing of the orchestral sound. I may suggest VSL to use more omni microphones when recording intead of cardiod. There is this one little upgrade fix that VSL need to do and they are undisputable number one

  

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 15:18
by dsilvercoin
Joined on Wed, Nov 30 2011, United States, Posts 85
Hi-

I'm a newbie to this forum so please forgive any mistakes of protocol.

I am finally updating my sample library (I still use miroslav, Garritan 1st edition and QL Brass 1st edition) and am wondering what people think I should get?

I have Kontakt 4 which came with some VSL solo instruments which I like, though I think the instruments are fairly limited editions. The spitfire stuff sounds great as well, though I'm confused by their "water marking."

Money, as always, is an issue, but if I'm investing in this, I rather spend my money on what will work.

thx!
Early 2009 Mac Pro 2 X Quad Core 2.93 Ghz Xeon, 32 GB RAM
4 Internal 1 TB SATA HD (boot, audio, samples, back up)
Logic Pro 9.1.7, OS X 10.7.2,
Several Gylph FW800 HD
MIO 2D expanded +dsp
Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 15:47
by Animus
Joined on Fri, Sep 25 2009, Posts 146

I love Spitfire.  Some seriously killer sounding stuff.  I love VSL as well, breathtaking the scope of all their products both software and samples. EastWest however, are the worse company on earth; I will never buy another EW product period.

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 17:37
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

dsilvercoin,

First, sorry pal but this is a long reply from a long winded guy. Second, I've replied assuming you're going to use this for film or t.v. scoring scenarios, whether mockup or production use.

Long term investment and believability (realism in sound) are always the most important traits to any library for me. VSL and Spitfire are the ONLY two libraries that have ever lived up to my standards for realism. With that in mind, one cannot ignore that Spitfire has a highly restrictive license and libraries. The expensive stuff requires that you regularly hire performers (which my being in the 'I'm pursuing a career' stage in my life, does not function within their policy). The affordible stuff has a good sound, but 1) It's nothing I can't obtain from VSL. It's just a good 'out of the box' sound, meaning less tweaking required. Also, 2) that 'less tweaking' point is paramount to me. The lower cost libraries offer no flexibility and very limited articulations. One can only make something sound believable with such limitations.

Another point is software. Spitfire has no desire to persue software development. While I used to love Kontakt (and still find occasional uses for it), Vienna Instruments Pro 1.0 blew Kontakt out of the water. It truly was a night and day difference for my productivity and ease of use. Yes, there was a learning curve. To get my samples sounding how I want, I had to put forth a bit of hard work and effort. But now that I do, my only owning the Special Edition, SE Strings Plus, Fanfare Trumpets, and Epic Horns dwarf any other library's ability to sound real. VI Pro 2.0 is now out and it is even more phenominal. The enveloped time stretching has given me tremolo and trill possibilities previously unavailable. I now have performances that no other library can even acheive.

By all means, Spitfire is good. If you want quick and easy and one style only, I'd say go for it. But if you want to actually write anything according to your composing choices, style, and so on- AND if you want to write for multiple styles of music... I'd say VSL is the far more logical choice. In the end all of those points boil down to investment to me. My priority is VSL. Why? Because I can do anything with it and sound better than any other library available. Because I am not limited by wet samples. Because their software allows for far more productive approaches than Kontakt could ever dream.

In the end, it's better to own both, everything even. It's even better to record real performances. But for the time and money, it's VSL. For the flexibility and quality of sound, it's VSL. I may sound a bit too VSL fanboy-ish but it is only because of my good experience. I could care less about asthetics and simpleton way that some companies approach things. I care about function above all else. VSL functions best imo. So the cost is far more justified.

Hopefully that helps,

-Sean

P.S. I had a friend explain how much he loved Hollywood Strings. I explained that 'There is no such thing as a Hollywood Cello'. What one needs in the industry is not the same sound that everyone else is producing. No one wants that. What they want is the ability to do that sound, other sounds, richer, darker, louder, and every other kind of sound one can imagine. When in film scores I hear dry, wet, and every other combination of everything out there... I can't help but remember that VSL is dry, and no one else really is. I can do both, they can't. That may seem like a simple answer, but in the end... what is more effective and what is going to give you the flexibility you need to produce anything asked of you?

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 20:48
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5584

That's a good post.  VSL has a depth of sound that has a truly lasting value since its based on great musical quality.   Even the old First Edition instruments are still used all the time.  But another part of this last post that is very true is the software aspect.  I also use Kontakt, EW, Play, used to do Gigastudio, etc.  But as soon as Vienna Ensemble/Instruments came out I completely adapted to it and now all the other systems are so clumsy in comparison I don't want to bother with them unless I have to - which is basically never.  There is an elegant quality to the VSL software that is perfect for selecting and using samples in any way you can dream of. 

... a Hollywood cello!  I love it.    Now what I really need is a Hollywood Tuba.

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 21:19
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499
William wrote:
Now what I really need is a Hollywood Tuba.

And the Hollywood Piccolo! Over 20GB of pure piccolo delight! Each articulation played specifically with film in mind! lol, wow...

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 21:49
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7580

More cowbell, anybody ...?

*duck and run*

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
3 Pages123>
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.