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Posted on Sat, Dec 03 2011 17:42
by Karel
Joined on Mon, Jan 19 2009, Belgium, Posts 2173

VE Pro 5 can still be used exactly like VE Pro 4 and is completely backward compatible. You don't lose anything by upgrading. I will try to reproduce the strange issues in Logic based on your description, but so far everything seems to work well.

Karel Bassez
Software Engineer
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Dec 12 2011 21:45
by cojoncio
Joined on Tue, Apr 20 2010, Spain, Posts 76

Well, this is crazy.

Despite the long post I wrote trying to carify things I have to admit that the Event Plugin DOESN'T WORK. Period.

Using the environment approach I set up a multi instrument with 15 channels. Everything worked fine. I added an Event Input  connected to this first VEP instance and loaded a few kontak instruments. Of course the I/O plugin is inserted as required in the manual.

Try my sounds. Fine. It works great. Press the start key, play the master keboard and get a horrible latency even with the setting is none in the VEP plugin window. Stop Logic and GET NO SOUND PLAYING MY MASTER KBD!!!

Go back to the arrange window in Logic. Select any of the first 15 channels and play. Good. There are sound. Then choose any of the channels belonging to the Event Input instance. Get sound too with no latency. Great. Start the sequencer and play. Again latency. Stop the sequencer and get no sound, even when I try to play in the screen keyboard.

So I guess the Event Input is a GREAT idea. Too bad is not working in Logic. The only reason I upgraded was to use this nice feature but still I'm stuck with 16 channels per instance. Don't know if the other users affected by this problem have some kind of solution.

Any ideas from Vienna?

Thanx

Master: i9 7900x OS X 10.12 Digital Performer
Slaves: i7 3930k. Windows 7 - Mac Pro 12 core. OS X 10.12
Posted on Tue, Dec 13 2011 21:13
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

Cojoncio --

I can't comment on using VE Pro 5 with the external approach, but I did have problems with it also.  To explain:  as I introduced additional Event Input non-multi-timbral instruments in Logic (and thereafter set up External Instruments, after having set up other "multi-instruments" in the Environment), what I discovered was that Logic would NOT select the appropriate External instrument.  For ease of discussion, I'll call this arrangement the "External Instrument Set Up."  In other words, when SEVERAL Event Inputs were set up, Logic would select the MOST RECENT set of External Instruments, even though I had selected a track that contained an External Instrument associated with an EARLIER instance of the Event Input. Only the MOST RECENT External Instruments would be selected, regardless of the Track chosen in Logic.  Put otherwise, when I selected EARLIER tracks with EARLIER Event Inputs, as I watched the Library to the right of the Arrange window, the correct External instrument was not being selected.

I CAN offer one suggestion that did help me however.  After I had originally set up an External Instrument Set Up, I was having pops and crackles with the instruments that DID work, as well as significant LATENCY problems that I could NOT cure by increasing latency settings in logic and VE Pro.  I DISCOVERED that I was using the WRONG network instance of my Slave computer.  I do not know enough about network set ups to explain this, but when I tried to CONNECT the VE Pro 5 instrument to the Slave, I was given TWO choices, that is, TWO IP addresses (e.g., "10.0.1.9" and "169.255.43.102") for the SAME Slave computer.  I tried an experiment.  What I did was give the Slave computer a FIXED address, NOT using DHCP in the Network settings of System Preferences of the SLAVE computer. Thereafter, I selected the FIXED address for the Slave computer when I CONNECTED the VE Pro 5 instance in Logic, and the clicks and pops and latency issues, which you seem to be describing, disappeared!  I have tried this on the simpler multi-timbral software instrument set up with equal success.

The folks at VSL are not in the business of teaching us how to set up networks, but it WOULD help, if they could provide a SIMPLE network setup involving one Mac Airport setup, one Master computer and one Slave computer.  I think I have a typical OSX set up, with my Mac Airport for Internet access, my Master computer, and the Slave computer, ALL capable of providing DHCP service in their respective network settings.  So, at one point, I had THREE DHCP servers going at once (I think).  I believe that what DHCP does is provide IP addresses within a local network, so that the various computer members of that network can communicate via the address provided.  Perhaps having THREE DHCPs turned on leads to confusion and latency issues I experienced.  A user on another forum, who uses the Mac Mini in Logic as a Slave computer, suggested that I TURN OFF the WIFI network (the fan at the top the screen), so that the ONLY network the Mac Mini is communicating with is through the ETHERNET cable.  Again, in the Slave Computer I opened up Network in System Preferences and assigned the Slave Computer a FIXED IP address, turning OFF DHCP.

All this said, I have NOT gone back to TEST the External Instrument Set Up, using my new network settings.  At some point you like to get back to the music!

Hope this provides some help.  I have tried to be REALLY clear in my explanation to help others who are not as far along in computer and Logic knowledge as you are.  I have enough trust in this forum, that if I have made mistakes, they will be SWIFTLY corrected.  :)

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
Posted on Tue, Dec 13 2011 22:36
by cojoncio
Joined on Tue, Apr 20 2010, Spain, Posts 76

Hi Steve.

Thanks for the info. At this point I'm using VEP on a single computer, so I have no network issues, but I'm sure your clear explanation will help other users using several computers networked.

Regarding our prblems, I've been digging around this forum and found this very useful thread:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/30297.aspx?PageIndex=1

There is a solution for the muted Event input. The trick is to insert an I/O plugin in every single instance of VEP, not only the Event Input but also in the VEP instance where the Event Input is connected. You just need to do the same I/O set up as described in the manual. I've tried it with the environment multitimbral setup and it works!! No latency, no muted tracks Big Smile

Karel (from Vianna) reported that it's a good workaround but the downside is that Logic throws all Live mode tracks processing on a single CPU core. At this point I'm working on a small project with two VEP instances, the first one with an event input attached with another 15 midi channels plus Vienna Convolution Reverb, Vienna Multiband (in the master bus), a few Logic instruments and a few audio tracks in the arrange window and it really works fine. There is one node reaching up to 50% while two or three others don't go beyond 5-10%. Also the readings in the CPU VEP meters are about 25-30%

I'll be able to push the system in my next project but as for now is working OK.

I'm also waiting for a final solution to this problem as Karel said he's gonna focus his efforts in this issue, making it one of his priorities.

BTW, I also support the idea of getting some feedback from Vienna on how to set up a simple network. Just a PDF would be enough Wink

Master: i9 7900x OS X 10.12 Digital Performer
Slaves: i7 3930k. Windows 7 - Mac Pro 12 core. OS X 10.12
Posted on Thu, Dec 15 2011 20:03
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

What is advantage has the Event input  compared to IAC ?

Looks like we are having the same problems

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2011 00:10
by cojoncio
Joined on Tue, Apr 20 2010, Spain, Posts 76
Cyril wrote:

What is advantage has the Event input  compared to IAC ?

Looks like we are having the same problems

Don't know about the problems with IAC but this is starting to be annoying.

As I said before, inserting the I/O plug into the main VEP instance fixes the  absence of audio and the huge latency, but is not a solution. It hogs one of the cores so there are artifacts and nasty noises.

It's a big issue  with one of the most used DAWs aout there (Logic). I'm still wondering how the beta testers and the staff didn't see it Indifferent

Master: i9 7900x OS X 10.12 Digital Performer
Slaves: i7 3930k. Windows 7 - Mac Pro 12 core. OS X 10.12
Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2011 03:07
by moviescoring
Joined on Fri, Sep 07 2007, Lee, Posts 24

" I'm still wondering how the beta testers and the staff didn't see it"

As cojoncio said, I can't understand how come vsl staff didn't see this big problem.

I know karel is working hard to fix this problem but there should a lots of other staff and beta testers.

don't get me wrong, despite this issue VEP is a very usefull program.

But I spent one week with vep5 problem and I'm back to vep4.

vep5 has a great concept and will be very usefull especially for logic users.

I hope It will woking as promised asap 

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2011 03:13
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
cojoncio wrote:

It's a big issue  with one of the most used DAWs aout there (Logic). I'm still wondering how the beta testers and the staff didn't see it Indifferent

The issue is not on Logic side, on my 12 core Macpro I have hardly any cpu load on the meter of Logic

On the CPU meter of my VE PRO I can read 35/40 % load

On the CPU meters on my MAC the 12 CPU are under 50 % and the 12 thread are around 30 %

Looks like there is a bug ; that they forgot to read the midi off of some notes, this causing hangging notes

I am going to try to split my big VE in two to see If I can get more notes played !

One question, if a VI 2 is not used does it put load on VSL engine ?

------------------

Concerning the Beta tester, this is for sure they did not do there job !

I have propose to Beta test ; they refused !!!!

1st trial I do I find THE big bug !!!

I have found other bugs just in one session using only VE Pro 5 (without MIR)

I dont know how VSL treat there Beta tester, I have been spending a lot of time to help VSL testing VE PRO when they improve the engine for the SSD, I had to make a remark to get a thanks, i did not get any rewards.

 So if they treat there beta tester like this, I am not surprise that we found quite a few bugs

If you want to get a good job you must reward every work.

I was thinking to buy MIR for Xmas and my birthday, I am going to wait they fixe this bug !!

Best

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2011 08:17
by cojoncio
Joined on Tue, Apr 20 2010, Spain, Posts 76

Yep. As I've said in another thread, this is a bug. When the play bar is pressed the notes sound with a huge latency. When it's stopped there are no sound coming out from the Event Input tracks.

As for the beta testers, I'd rather make no comments. And I'm sorry to hear Cyril's situation concerning his testing for VSL.

moviescoring_30579 wrote:

VEP is a very usefull program. vep5 has a great concept and will be very usefull especially for logic users.

I can see several users are switching back to VEP4. For me VEP5 is pretty stable (as 4 was) and I upgraded just to get rid of the 16 midi limitation in AU, but at this point is completely useless. I paid for nothing.

Really hope this get fixed soon

Master: i9 7900x OS X 10.12 Digital Performer
Slaves: i7 3930k. Windows 7 - Mac Pro 12 core. OS X 10.12
Posted on Tue, Dec 27 2011 14:27
by Karel
Joined on Mon, Jan 19 2009, Belgium, Posts 2173

The solution is on the horizon. An update will be released as soon as possible.

Karel Bassez
Software Engineer
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Dec 27 2011 15:17
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
Keyzz wrote:

and I just spent  300 bills  for nuttin  

What is nuttin ?

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Dec 27 2011 16:00
by Ege
Joined on Sat, Jan 22 2005, Washington, DC, Posts 104

"Nuttin" is the opposite of "sumpin".  :)

Steve

IMac, 2.9 GHz Intel 4 Core i5, 32 GB, OSX 10.10.1
Posted on Tue, Dec 27 2011 19:20
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636
Steve_DC wrote:

"Nuttin" is the opposite of "sumpin".  :)

Steve

sumpin is unknown in the English to French dictionnary ;)


MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Wed, Dec 28 2011 05:32
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

My 94 instruments template now work with  Logic 9, VEP SERVER PRO 5 and 1 x VEP 5 and MIR PRO

It sounds great !!!!

Sometimes I get hanging notes on very heavy parts, It is working 95%

If you need help, send me a PM at cb dot blanc at numericable dot com

Any idea for the best buffer size setting for a SATA III raid 0 of 4 x ssd and a SATA II SSD ?

Best

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Wed, Dec 28 2011 09:49
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1732

A solution to use multiple ports without the event input plugin is currently in testing here at VSL. We hope to get the update out as soon as possible.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Wed, Dec 28 2011 11:25
by C_Caouette
Joined on Thu, Mar 11 2004, Posts 172

Now that would pretty awesome!  

Posted on Wed, Dec 28 2011 11:47
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1732

So far it works fine already. We just need to have it more thoroughly tested before we release it. I'm right now running 16 midi ports to one AU plugin here myself, giving 256 midi channels to one VEPro instance.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Wed, Dec 28 2011 15:46
by ThomasM
Joined on Sun, Nov 25 2007, Visby, Sweden, Posts 24
Posted on Wed, Dec 28 2011 16:00
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2636

you can send it to me I can test it with my 94 ports and my cpu exterminator song Wink 

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Mar 20 2012 19:38
by dsilvercoin
Joined on Wed, Nov 30 2011, United States, Posts 85

Does anyone know if this got resolved? A just posted a similar problem in a new thread.

Thank you.

d

Early 2009 Mac Pro 2 X Quad Core 2.93 Ghz Xeon, 32 GB RAM
4 Internal 1 TB SATA HD (boot, audio, samples, back up)
Logic Pro 9.1.7, OS X 10.7.2,
Several Gylph FW800 HD
MIO 2D expanded +dsp
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