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How VSL treat their customers!
Last post Wed, Jul 04 2012 by Cyril Blanc, 73 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 06:57
by cesare.italy
Joined on Thu, Feb 27 2003, Posts 89

Since the Synchrosoft key has already been emulated (check youtube), the main worry for Vienna, as Stefan pointed out, is that costumers (those who payed to use the software) might want to duplicate the kye to give it to friends. The funny thing is that among all possible copy protection solutions they have chosen the one that makes it EASIER to share the software!!! You just unplug the key and give it to someone else that's it. You don't need to do anything else, no need to share computers, transfer licenses, call home, or anything. It is so absurd, they are blaming us that the copy protection they have chose is simply terrible.

Cesare

Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 08:25
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
cesare.italy wrote:

Since the Synchrosoft key has already been emulated (check youtube), the main worry for Vienna, as Stefan pointed out, is that costumers (those who payed to use the software) might want to duplicate the kye to give it to friends. The funny thing is that among all possible copy protection solutions they have chosen the one that makes it EASIER to share the software!!! You just unplug the key and give it to someone else that's it. You don't need to do anything else, no need to share computers, transfer licenses, call home, or anything. It is so absurd, they are blaming us that the copy protection they have chose is simply terrible.

Cesare

 

  1. The Syncrosoft key for specific software products was cracked a long time ago (Cubase and Nuendo)
  2. VSL doesn't use a Syncrosoft key any more, and AFAIK the VSL "protected" products haven't been cracked.
  3. It might be easier to "share" your software, but there is still only one copy in existence. All none dongled software is just as easy to share, but in that case 2 or more copies exist, which is much closer to my definition of sharing.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 09:07
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600
DG wrote:

VSL doesn't use a Syncrosoft key any more, ...........

DG

 

Eh ?    Did I miss something that  passed me by then ?

Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 09:30
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
cesare.italy wrote:

Oh right, I forgot big difference! They call it eLicenser now, new brand old product, has been cracked too.

Cesare 

 

 Not for VSL products.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 10:03
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Cesare, I'm not going to get into an argument, but I'm pretty sure that VSL products haven't been cracked, but in any case if VSL believes that the dongle works (as do virtually all plugin developers) then they must have their reasons.

As far as passing a burden onto the customer, I have certainly felt no burden, and to me the only problem that might occur would be if I actually had to claim on my insurance. Until that happens, I have no problems with the copy protection. Where this could be improved would be if VSL could recommend an insurer. However, I can see that if you want to travel around with your dongle it would be a big risk for the insurer, so don't expect the premiums to be low.

As far as indirect taxes, I don't think that a few quid every 2 years is much to ask. It's less than a cost of a reasonably bad meal. Wink

Don't get me wrong, I do think that there are improvements that can be made for the user, and I wish that Steinberg would implement them, but none of them concern me over much.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 15:21
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236
Terms of License wrote:

Is it OK to sell the product to someone else if I’m finished with the project that I needed it for?

License Transfers will be handled on a case-by-case basis as a special customer service. It will be necessary to announce a license transfer to us, and both you and the new licensee will have to sign a license transfer agreement. A nominal fee will be charged per transferred license. Please note that license transferees lose all upgrade privileges.

This point at least within the European Union is obsolete from today on, as the EU court made it perfectly clear that reselling of used software licences is legal.

[url="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-03/oracle-can-t-stop-software-license-resales-eu-court-says-1-.html"]Here[/url] you can read a short summary, while [url="http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=124564&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=5230979"]here[/url] you can find the original court sentence.

Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 15:50
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

It will be interesting to see if this ruling applies to sample libraries, and also whether or not the company concerned is required to transfer right of updates to a new user. I would say that anyone trying to sell their software in the short term should be very careful, and make sure that they have the money for a potentially expensive law suit. Wink

Of course this ruling is more serious for those developers who don't allow re-sale at all. I also predict that if it turns out that this ruling does affect sample libraries that we will see many of the dongle free software developers changing their minds about the sort of copy protection that they wish to use.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 16:07
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236
DG wrote:
whether or not the company concerned is required to transfer right of updates to a new user.

This issue is also mentioned in the sentence, all the original rights (including the right to upgrade) are an inseperable part of the original purchase and are hence passed to the new owner on resale.

Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 16:08
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2723

When I sold my Adobe Premier License, Adobe just ask me to send them the name and address of the new owner !

I will say it again : what does VSL is not legal, we should be able to backup the licenses.

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 18:33
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2723
cesare.italy wrote:
Cyril wrote:

When I sold my Adobe Premier License, Adobe just ask me to send them the name and address of the new owner !

I will say it again : what does VSL is not legal, we should be able to backup the licenses.

Cyril, I can also ask regarding the backup of the licenses. Doing two inquiries I guess would be more effective, but if you don't feel like I can try to put the two things in one inquiry.

Cesare

I have ask to my insurance company to insure my lib, the answer is that they dont insure IMATERIAL stuff and by the law the provider should give the solution to backup the IMATERIAL that you own

That is why they say to get a "legal" insurance to sue them.

I dont want to sue VSL, but VSL has to reconsider and allow to backup licenses

Can you give the Email, I will also write to EEC

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 22:37
by Stefan
Joined on Tue, Oct 10 2006, Posts 524

Hello everyone,

We can not ignore that in this thread there are posts that can be interpreted as a challenge to crack software and to support piracy. This is of course not allowed in our forum, and posts like this will not be without consequences. Furthermore we do not allow reselling our products in our forum.

The false claim that our company policies are illegal will not become true because some forum members repeat this claim as often as possible. We're sure that any lawsuit would have little chance of success, but we would prefer to spend our time doing what we do best, which is recording new samples and creating new software for the music community.

Best,

Stefan

Stefan Steinbauer
Sales Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2012 23:43
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499
Stefan wrote:
we would prefer to spend our time doing what we do best, which is recording new samples and creating new software for the music community.

AMEN!

Don't like licenses? It's not like you can't record your own samples. I don't care if the EU, some court, or any other person who thinks they are intelligent would challenge VSL's property rights. They have every right to protect their hard work. If VSL had a policy that said "We have the right to deactivate your license at our disgression for whatever reason we choose without refunding you" I would agree that it is within their rights as well. We may all not like VSL policies, but I believe that if we agreed to buy into the product and agreed to their terms then we aren't in any place to complain about those terms.

Line 14 "According to recital 13 in that preamble, ‘the acts of loading and running necessary for the use of a copy of a program which has been lawfully acquired, and the act of correction of its errors, may not be prohibited by contract’."

The principle involved here is one that destroys any legitimacy of contractual agreements between a user and a company. It's legal nonsense. So as long as someone does something legal, contracts and agreements that would add additional restrictions on a user are unlawful? I'm glad I live in America. We may not be perfect, but if I make a program like photoshop I believe I have every right to make contracts and agreements with who I sell it to. If I didn't want people using my creations to make a "pro-Hitler" propeganda video, then why should I not be able to make such an agreement to prohibit such a use of what I created? It's my creation, my right to sell it to who I want. If I can't control my own property and how and who I can license it to, then I have no property to begin with as governments (other people) have taken away what is mine. The idea that we make agreements and contracts and are not bound by them is as legal absurd as saying that I can justify disobeying any law just because I don't like it.

This forum has been nothing but nonsense, VSL bashing, or a debate that will obviously not resolve the differences in everyone's opinion here. If you have a concern about your license (or potential licenses), email VSL. Complaining and making legal accusations on VSL's own forum is unprofessional and inappropriate. I've always felt that Music is something that can and should be a uniting passion that connects different people. If you don't like it, live with it or go somewhere else. No one is stoping you. I respect the anti-dongle opinion. I also respect your right to make your own samples. It would be better for VSL and yourself if you went elsewhere rather than remained here to do nothing but unproductively complain about something that isn't changing. Nothing productive is taking place here. If I had any problem that motivates my complaining on this thread, it's that. Write something, compose, arrange, pretend to compose for all I care... just do something productive with your time. Maybe some of you could make your own software license protection company with different policies! lol

-Sean

Posted on Wed, Jul 04 2012 03:43
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2723

Hi Stefan

1) you did not answer on how much I will have to pay if I lose my dongle !

2) Instead of trying to find a solution so everybody is happy, AND YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE LAWS with your copy protection system you prefer that one of us take you to court.

If you lose in court (you have 99.99999 chance to loose as you are agains CEE laws) you will have to pay your Lawer, indemnities and penalties. That could kill VSL !

Do you want to kill VSL !! sorry to say it but it is stupid.

Is I was the owner of VSL I will work on a soution so I am in the law !

We do not want VSL to get bankrupt, we love the work that you do, just be in the law and find a solution

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
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