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DP and VEPro delay compensation woes
Last post Sat, Apr 05 2014 by Chris T, 47 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Feb 29 2012 18:57
by labman
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 117
Can anyone running DP 7.23 or 7.24 and VEP 5 tell me if they are getting delay compensation working properly? Isnt it supposed to account for the vEP buffer and it isnt. Not with VEP builds 5.0.09753 or 5.0.10068 (I have delay comp turned on inside both VEP 5 and DP)

You can verify by looking at the delay comp in samples data in the bottom of the VEP instantiation. It is always "0" (zero)

It takes applying a DP time shift plug to each midi track to make it all line up properly.

Is there something else we need to do???

thanks for the help

3 macs. host is macpro 3.33 6core 10.6.8 v1.1
Posted on Wed, Feb 29 2012 21:11
by Arceo
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 61

Hi Labman,

I've yet to purchase VEP5, but with VEP4 my experience is the same as the one you're describing. Me too I have to make use of DP shif plugins to reallign VEP midi tracks since ADC doesn't work. I end up removing percussive tracks from VEP in my template in order to get less time sensitive. I hope that somebody can find a solution.

Arceo 

Posted on Thu, Mar 01 2012 05:09
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2671

same with Logic

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Mar 01 2012 07:49
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

If you are using the external midi input feature of VEP server there will naturally be no latency compensation of those midi tracks. Any midi data sent through the server interface plugin will be compensated for properly.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Thu, Mar 01 2012 11:29
by Arceo
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 61

If you are using the external midi input feature of VEP server there will naturally be no latency compensation of those midi tracks. Any midi data sent through the server interface plugin will be compensated for properly.

Nope!

I'm sorry but I must disagree. I only use host/server midi tracks and I must shift erlier midi data to match my time line, so something in the ADC doesn't do a good job. I can produce waveform pictures of that since I've been dealing with this little annoyance since the first VEP4 I bought and every updates didn't address it.

Easy for me to check. i just load a kontakt instance in VEP4 and one in DP, load the same Bass Drum sample in both Kontakt instances, record a midi track with a 127 velocity note every quarter, I duplicate it and send one to VEP Kontakt instance and one to internal Kontakt instance; if VEP4 were delay compensated I had to hear some sort if phase cancellation. What I really get instead is a flam that can be corrected shifting erlier tha VEP4 midi track. And (to my experience) as you change the number of buffers in VEP4 you must change the delay value to correct latency

Cheers

Arceo

Posted on Thu, Mar 01 2012 14:07
by labman
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 117
HI Martin. Thank you for chiming in here.

Aerco is exactly correct. It does not work with tracks sent thru midi servers. You absolutely must add a midi shift for DP trks to line up. This is the same for 5.09753, and 5.010068 (We never use external midi so I wouldnt have even thought about that.)

Can you please look into this for us all? Really would like to see this working asap.

Posted on Fri, Mar 02 2012 11:35
by Arceo
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 61

Hi Martin, since you've been so kind to chime in, can I ask you a
further effort? Can you please run the easy test that I described in my earlier post?

I tell you what I did step to step in case you can take the time to replicate it:

- Created a new song in DP

- Added Kontakt instrument (internally), added a "New Instrument" in the first Kontakt slot, loaded a Bass Drum sample

- Added a VEPRO Plugin and connencted it to my PC slave VEPRO Server

- Added a Kontakt instance in my PC slave, added a "New Instruments" in the first Kontakt slot, loaded the same Bass Drum sample

- Added a midi track in DP and armed it to the internal Kontakt instance

- Recorded a C3 note 127 velocity every quarter

- Create a duplicate of the midi track and armed it to the VEPRO Kontakt instance.

I'm
really curious to see what are your results, because if the ACD would
work as advertised, the two tracks had to stay aligned no matter the Plugin buffer number and no matter the DP buffer size settings.

Well,
this is not what I experience. My VEPRO midi tracks has latency that
varies whenever I change the Plugin buffers numbers (which I usually leave to "2") and/or the DP buffers (Which I usually leave at 256).

I would reeeally appreciate if you could take some time to run this test and give me your results.

Thanks
in advance and kudos anyway for this brilliant piece of software that
helps me on a day basis to get my workflow more productive. This little
issue is just a little annoyance compared to the beauty and the stability of the program.

Arceo

Posted on Sun, Mar 04 2012 11:14
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

I can confirm that DP does not latency compensate properly. The audiounit does however report the latency changes properly, and all other hosts with ADC pickup on this and adjust the latency accordingly. It might be an issue with DP only expecting a static latency for the plugin - not considering any changes in the latency value during runtime. This is necessary for VEPro, since the latency depends on (a) soundcard buffer size, (b) VEPro numbuffers setting.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Mon, Mar 05 2012 19:04
by Arceo
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 61
MS wrote:

I can confirm that DP does not latency compensate properly. 

Err... okay... and the solution is???

I mean, since you did not imply it in your post: can we expect a future VEPRO version that addresses this (already now known!) DP/ADC issue?

TIA

Arceo

Posted on Mon, Mar 05 2012 19:28
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

We will have to investigate this further, but currently it looks more like a DP issue than a VEP issue.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Mon, Mar 05 2012 19:41
by labman
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 117
Thanks. I sure HOPE you get this fixed ASAP as it was one of the selling points of VEP5! We were aware of issues with PT, but told DP7 was fine with all the compensation.

Thanks again, and please keep us posted.
Posted on Mon, Mar 05 2012 20:01
by passenger57
Joined on Thu, May 21 2009, Posts 195
Same issue w/ Logic, I always have to zoom in and push the wav back
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 03:44
by mohurwitzmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 07 2010, Posts 297

I can confirm that DP does not delay compensate VEP 5 properly. I would like to roll back to VEP 4. Is there an easy way to do this?

www.midikinetics.com
Lemur touch controllers for composers and music producers.
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 12:12
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760
passenger57 wrote:
Same issue w/ Logic, I always have to zoom in and push the wav back

Latency compensation with the Server Interface plugin in Logic works exactly like it should, in both VEP4 and VEP5.

mohurwitzmusic wrote:
I can confirm that DP does not delay compensate VEP 5 properly. I would like to roll back to VEP 4. Is there an easy way to do this?

Latency compensation also doesn't work with VEP4 in DP. As I wrote earlier, it looks to be a DP issue.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 13:19
by mohurwitzmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 07 2010, Posts 297

I don't recall ever having a problem with VEP4 not latency compensating. Hmm this is a huge issue. I hope this gets resolved soon because right now it looks to me that the software doesn't do what it is advertised to do. 

www.midikinetics.com
Lemur touch controllers for composers and music producers.
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 15:12
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

As I wrote earlier, VEP reports latency properly to the sequencer. It does however rely upon the host sequencer being able to adjust the latency compensation of plugins dynamically. It might simply be that DP lacks this feature.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 21:25
by labman
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 117
Hello Martin. By "dynamically" do you mean prior to, or during playback? Or are you talking about 'per instantiation' ?

Perhaps a specific type of example can help us to follow what you are explaining???

I can say that all the rest of our plugs on our 12 rigs DP have compensated fine the past 3+ years or so, excepting for a bug here or there on a specific plug. And we have tons of plugs, VI's etc. :)
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 22:17
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

It needs to react to latency changes during playback, when changing buffer settings in the plugin, or changing latency of your soundcard. Most plugins with latency have a fixed latency, which of course is easier to compensate for, perhaps only during plugin instantiation, or a plugin scan.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 23:08
by J111111
Joined on Fri, Jul 09 2010, Posts 72

Does this mean that if we don't touch our DP latency or the VEP latency, then it works?

I'm wondering becuaes it seems to be working okay here...  and I never really change my buffers..

Thanks!

J

Posted on Tue, Mar 06 2012 23:37
by J111111
Joined on Fri, Jul 09 2010, Posts 72

just to add..

It's not working 100% here.. but at a low enough buffer, it works decently.. 

At a higher buffer, it's unusable..

~J

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