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Serious question about format work
Last post Thu, Apr 19 2012 by wxyz, 13 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 11:32
by tfkbucncv
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 4
Hello I work only in 24 BIT 96 KHZ and wanted to know what format your packages work that I saw they were working on 44 KHZ and it does not format my work to what you do not put the high quality raw material that is very important. ?
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 11:37
by tfkbucncv
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 4
Today every self-respecting studio and works as a quality and clear that this format works if there is a lot more clarity and depth of sound 44 KHZ is not even close to half the quality
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 11:59
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1942

if you're featuring these numbers have a reality of sound to the degree that the numbers suggest per se, you're barking up the wrong tree.

what's crucial for a samples library developer is not necessary for the end user of the samples. one may even find some information to suggest that the nyquist limit isn't abolutely the limit of hearing, but certainly 96khz is far far above what anyone hears. that sort of criteria is a matter of headroom and ceiling room for the process of recording and editing in development.

but those of us that actually use the samples need the performance to be high, and 96k is rather too taxing for the CPU for most people's workflow I think.

"not even half the quality" is an absurd conclusion. And I thought you were asking. Now you're pronouncing.

MacBookPro 18,3
Apple M1 Pro: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9

Mac OS 12.3.1
VE Pro 7.1298, Nuendo 11.0.41
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 12:30
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 Very few studios work at 96KHz, because there simply is no gain in quality by trying to record frequencies that your microphone, mixer, speakers and your ear cannot process. 

Most studios work at 24-bit/44.1KHz or maybe at 48KHz for film work.  96KHz is generally only used for the sake of saying that it was used.

The actual quality of any recording nowadays has more to do with the final D/A used to listen to the music, not the sampling frequency.

Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 13:14
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

tfkbucncv wrote:
Hello I work only in 24 BIT 96 KHZ and wanted to know what format your packages work that I saw they were working on 44 KHZ and it does not format my work to what you do not put the high quality raw material that is very important. ?
 

What sample libraries do you currently use then?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 14:22
by tfkbucncv
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 4
no true does hear the difference while you have a powerful computer I year ago I moved to 96 KHZ than 44 and the difference is very significant sound more deep, sharp, clear, I would never go back to 44 the difference is very significant, even after you finish the mix and gives the song for distribution in 44 KHZ clarity and sharpness continues to be done two experiments recorded once on 44 KHZ and I mix and once on 96 KHZ and converted to 44 KHZ after mixing the difference is very significant, no doubt, at 44 KHZ still indulge in that sort of clarity and depth recording of the 96 KHZ! .
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 14:25
by tfkbucncv
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 4
I wanted to know if for example I buy a package SPEICAL EDITION STRING Can I get the raw material inside the package at a frequency 96 KHZ frequency course if you tape this what the original frequency of the sampling before conversion to 44 ? /
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 15:08
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

tfkbucncv wrote:
I wanted to know if for example I buy a package SPEICAL EDITION STRING Can I get the raw material inside the package at a frequency 96 KHZ frequency course if you tape this what the original frequency of the sampling before conversion to 44 ? /
 

Simple answer. No you can't.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 18:14
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

tfkbucncv wrote:
no true does hear the difference while you have a powerful computer I year ago I moved to 96 KHZ than 44 and the difference is very significant sound more deep, sharp, clear, I would never go back to 44 the difference is very significant, even after you finish the mix and gives the song for distribution in 44 KHZ clarity and sharpness continues to be done two experiments recorded once on 44 KHZ and I mix and once on 96 KHZ and converted to 44 KHZ after mixing the difference is very significant, no doubt, at 44 KHZ still indulge in that sort of clarity and depth recording of the 96 KHZ! .
 

It's not the 44.1KHz vs 96KHz difference you are hearing,  it is what must be the poor quality conversion between the two frequencies.

What software did you use to convert the 96KHz to 44.1KHz ?    And what D/A converter are you using to hear the sound?

Posted on Mon, Apr 16 2012 19:51
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7868

Welcome tfkbucncv,

tfkbucncv wrote:
[...] I saw they were working on 44 KHZ [...]

Vienna Instruments will work in any typical sampling frequency, and of course 96 kHz is amongst the supported values. The built-in real-time sample rate conversion will take care for that.

The instruments' samples themselves are recorded in 96 kHz, 24 bit. They are stored and edited in 96 kHz, 32 bit FP. -> http://www.vsl.co.at/en/65/72/103/20.vsl

They are converted to the internal delivery format of 44.1 kHz, 24 bit in a final step before mapping, using a proptietary hi-end tool that was developed specifically for VSL. This format is widely regarded as the best compromise between sound-quality, file-size and CPU/RAM-requirements.

The samples are not accessible individually, but delivered in a data-compressed, monolithical format. Data gets un-compressed in real-time by the Vienna Instrument Player software.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Apr 19 2012 00:28
by Nick Batzdorf
Joined on Tue, Apr 29 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 2546

The argument for high SR recording is that it pushes the brick wall filter's ringing well out of the audible range.

That doesn't mean it's worth losing half your performance when working with samples - as Dietz says - but you don't have to be delusional to want to work at 96k.

Mac Pro 5,1 12-core 3.46 GHz, 64MB RAM, latest macOS available. Metric Halo 2882 interface.

VisionDAW Windows 7 Pro i7 950 3.07 4-core, 24GB RAM. Has an RME Hammerfall HDSP9632, but I just use VE Pro. Also several ancient P4 XP slaves, rarely used.
Posted on Thu, Apr 19 2012 10:32
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7868

Dan Lavry (who might have to say a thing or two about digital audio in general and converters in particular) offers an even more differentiated POV. In his famous White Paper from 2004 he discusses the benefits of high sampling rates and comes to the conclusion:

"Pro:

Easier filter
Overcome Sinc problem


Con:

Reduced accuracy [!]
Significant increase in data files size
Significant increase in processing power required"


Assuming I understood Mr. Lavry correctly, he thinks that a properly built converter would ideally be operated around 65 kHz sampling rate.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Apr 19 2012 14:44
by wxyz
Joined on Wed, Aug 29 2007, NY, Posts 16

A high quality converter is key at 44.1

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