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  4. [SOLVED] VEpro 5 hangs/crashes with Play (audio engine on/off problem)

  • [SOLVED] VEpro 5 hangs/crashes with Play (audio engine on/off problem)

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    Update: VSL support have said that this will be fixed in the next patch. :)

    Update2: I have updated the title of this forum post to better describe the intial problem that has been resolved. Hopefully this will also fix the problems you others are having with the Kontakt hanging and similar issues. If not, hopefully these problems have now come better to light with Karel from support reading these posts.

    Problem:
    After a time, either one or both of the VEpro instances will hang. When i click on a button in their interface the whole window wil go white and a Not Responding message will show in the header of the window. Then it just hangs like this forever unless i close the window and end the prosess. This is kinda irritating because it defeats the purpose of using VEpro when i have to reload all the samples 2-3 times a day on 2 computers. This can happen at any time, either after a day or a few hours, either when im making music or when im away from the computer. I have had this problem since i bought VEpro 5, and it has not gotten better with updates, not worse either. I have tried running decoupled but it does not have any effect. I have turned off that hard drives can go to sleep in the power options on both computers. It works perfectly when it works, but im getting really tired having to wait 20 minutes to load samples every time each of the instances crash. No error message is given.

    If i disconnect the VEpro instance in Cubase when it has hanged on the other computer, Cubase will hang as well.

    Anyone have the same problem or any knowledge to what could be the problem on my end? I have heard that running Play before Kontakt or the other way around is better or worse, but can anyone confirm that they need to be in a special order before i use 3-4 days setting a new template? ^^

    Setup:
    All drivers and programs updated.
    Both computers running Windows 7 Pro 64bit.

    Main Computer:
    Cubase 6.5.1 (had the same problem with 6.5)
    RME Babyface audio interface.
    1x Vepro5 instance with Kontakt 4 and Play 3 instances, Fabfilter and Spaces effects added.
    Using about 20GB RAM out of 24GB.
    Core i7 950.

    Slave Computer:
    1x Vepro5 instance with Kontakt 4 and Play 3 instances, Fabfilter and Spaces added.
    Using about 28GB RAM out of 32GB.
    Core i5 2500k.

    Thanks for any help you can give.
    Sorry if the formating in this post is weird, this forum software is obviously very out of date and i have to use html brackets to make new lines ^^
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    [quote=anotherzen]Problem:

    You solution for not waiting 20 minutes is SSD or a raid of SSD [;)]

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
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    Cyril's suggestion will certainly help with the wait time, but the crash shouldn't happen in the first place. I would suggest that you contact support@vsl.co.at and send them the crash logs. I bet it's PLAY. [;)]

    Regarding formating, you need to set up your account here properly. Profile/Community/Content Editor/Enhanced.

    DG
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    I do not have this exact problem, but on several of my slave machines (pc's- I am runnung Cubase 6.51 on Win 7 as well) I experience no midi or audio coming from certain instances/projects with in a VE PRO metaframe.  In other words I can have say 3 projects inside one VE PRO metaframe but maybe only one stops receiving midi/or sending audio while the other projects inside the metaframe work fine.  I have tried to experiment to track this down with no luck.  When this happens even if I force disconnect in VE PRO I can not disconnect in Cubase until I force quit VE PRO on the slave machine and then Cubase can unlock and release.  Incredibly frustrating as this can happen several times a day and like you I have to painfully reload.  Some days this does not happen at all.  The only thing I can say for sure is this never happened until I upgraded to VE PRO 5.  I sure hope they can fix these issues.
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    By the way....in my case VE PRO never really crashes so there is never a crash log.
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    Hi everyone and thanks for taking your time to answer.

    I have an SSD for Hollywood Strings, but the main reason i bought VEpro was to not spend the insane amount of money on SSDs :)

    As with dlpmusic, i never get a crash log either. When the sound stops (or midi info stops passing back and fourth) it only hangs when i try to click on the power symbol or try to open a vst. I can click on the menu or minimize/maximize the mixer, but if i click on the power symbol or try to open a vst it instantly goes white and then i have to force close it, there is no crash log except if its saved somewhere from VEpro itself. So it seems like we may have the same or a very similar issue.

    Blaming PLAY is a valid argument hehe, and for more reasons than one, i would love them to start using Kontakt or have a Kontakt version. Tho as many of serious PLAY users probably use VEpro because their libraries are so huge, i find it weird that not more are complaining about it. I have disabled the SPACES plug-in (because older versions of it has been known to be unstable) to see if that helps, will report back later if it has any effect.

    Will report the problem to support@vsl.co.at now. Thanks again everyone :)
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    This time I think Play has nothing to do with it as I am mostly using Kontakt and believe to be having the exact same problems.  I am almost sure we are having the same problems when you mentioned the "power" button can freeze VE PRO.

    I had 2 machines yesterday have this problem......incredibly frustrating to track this down.  I hope the VE PRO programmers can figure this out.
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    I just got an e-mail from the VSL support and they where not able to reproduce the problem. :(

    I have contacted EastWest support now in hope of getting some information.

    I don't know if its only PLAY but i had a hard time trying to get the same hang/crash with only Kontakt.

    But the instance i but the plug-in Spaces on a Kontakt instance, i was able to crash it. And every time

    i used an instance of Play (even a single instance) i was able to crach it withing 2-3 minutes. It might

    be that Play and Spaces are in the habit of triggering the problem more rappidly than for instance Kontakt.

    This was also on my slave so it did not become unstable because it was on the same machine as

    the sequencer.

    Ill report back when i hear from EW Support :)

    EDIT: Im posting the tests i did. I also performed a test with Presonus Studio One v2, ended up with the same ressults.

    TEST 1:
    On the same computer as Cubase:
    one instance of VEpro5 with only Play
    one instance of VEpro5 with Kontakt and Spaces running. 

    Slave computer:
    one instance of VEpro5 with only Kontakt
    one instance of VEpro5 with Play, Kontakt, Spaces and Fabfilter

    It seemed to work fine, then i clicked on the Audio Engine button on one of the instances that where
    on the computer that Cubase is on and it crashed, just like it usually does, but just this time it seemed 
    like i forced it to crash rather it doing it randomly. I had 2 instances connected to this server and they 
    both died at the same time. The Slave computer followed closely after and crashed within a minute.
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    So frustrating....I can not cause it to happen on demand but when I lose audio/midi on an instnce it is the same basic behaviour.  It definitely never happened on version 4.  I have a second room with a similar set up and my assistant has not had the issue yet even though we have very similar set ups....although he has not been terribly busy lately to give it a real good observation.

    Hopefully more people can chime in and help identify this.
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    @dlpmusic said:

    This time I think Play has nothing to do with it as I am mostly using Kontakt and believe to be having the exact same problems.  I am almost sure we are having the same problems when you mentioned the "power" button can freeze VE PRO.

    I had 2 machines yesterday have this problem......incredibly frustrating to track this down.  I hope the VE PRO programmers can figure this out.

     

     However, judging by your test, it is PLAY that is causing the crash every time. Two things for you to realise:

    1. Spaces is powered by the PLAY engine
    2. By having Spaces and Kontakt in the same instances you are in effect putting Kontakt and PLAY in the same instance. Not  good idea.

    DG
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    that is just what I noticed as well. I have had to isolate Play from Kontakt. At one time if I had to have K3.5 with its memory server running, Play's MS (which you can't kill) meant a no-go, period. I don't use Play hardly at all and I'l glad my investment in libraries using it is minimal.

    Beyond that, if 'power button' refers to stopping/starting the audio engine, why would you do that?
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    one other thing to look at per inexplicable loss of connection is a dynamic IP setting.
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    @civilization 3
    I start/stop the audio engine to force the problem, the crash will occur anyway just usually not as fast. But the main reason i stop it is when i go to bed, so it does not use as much CPU power, keeping the electricity bill and heat down ^^ Bedroom musician hehe. But as i said before it does happen even if i don't play with the audio engine button, it just seem to happen more quickly when i do.

    @DG
    I did not know that Spaces was powered by Play, but i had a hunch there where similar code in it as they both crashes VEpro in exactly the same way. But now alteast we know that it seems to be a Play specific problem, or a perhaps even VEpro5 vs Play specific.

    I could have lived with it if i could have 2 server instances of VEpro, one with Play and one separate with Kontakt, if it made any difference, but it hangs even if i only use Play, and half my libs are Play :/ What im going to do now tho is set up a server for Play and a server for Kontakt and use Spaces only inside my sequencer. So when it crashes atleast i dont have to reload any samples on the Kontakt server. That should atleast halfen my downtime.

    @dlpmusic:
    I might try and do some tests with VEpro4 if i can get VSL support to give me a version hehe, atleast then we can see if the problem is VEpro 5 and Play spesific.

    Thanks everyone for chiming inn with comments :) I really appreciate it.
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    I want to also add that when I have loss of midi/audio on a particular slave pc that it usually is just 1 instance inside a bigger metaframe.  In other words I might be running 2 or 3 instances with about 14-16 Kontakts in each one.  When I notice I am not getting audio/midi on one particular instance usually the 2nd instance with in the same metaframe is still working.  So this makes the problem even more confusing as VE PRO 5 obviously has not crashed and the network is still functioning.

    I see that several of you are able to cause similar behavioour with EASTWEST PLAY and SPACES, however I do not use either on my machines that have the problem.
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    VSL support was kind and sendt me a demo serial for VEpro4. I am currently testing it out with Play, Spaces and Kontakt running at the same time.

    I have now been running it for 15minutes and have not been able to crash it. Will test more because it hasn't allways crashed instantly, but so far things might be looking up.

    Will write an update later when i have some definitive anwser if it works or not, to bad you cant import VEpro5 metaframes into VEpro4 ^^
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    Allright, so, i have now recreated one of my templates in VEpro 4 and no craches, cant even force them with the Power Button trick. Its super stable with both Play, Spaces and Kontakt in the same instance. 

    But once i load VEpro5, and even if i open the same VEpro4 metaframe, it crashes within 2-10 rappid presses of the power button, or if i just use it normally over a random period of time.

    I even tried to limit the midi inns and outs, but that made no difference. 

    Seems like VEpro5 really does not like Play or Spaces (play) at all on my system.

    Thats all i have on that subject i guess ^^
  • K
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    This issue has been fixed for the next update. We'll do our best to release it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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    FANTASTIC news.  I have been reporting this problem for a long time saying that I did not believe this ever happend in VE PRO 4.  I am glad the "PLAY" folks were able to consistant ly show the problem.

    Now if you can fix my multiple instances of Halion 4.x VE PRO would be flawless for me.

    Thanks for the fix....I can't wait to get it.
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    This is very awesome news indeed :) Thank you very much :)
  • S
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    I have this issue as well. I have just set up a slave machine i7 processor with Win7 Pro and am only running Kontakt 5 instruments in VEPro5. My host machine is a Mac Pro with Logic 9. I can't even get so far as to steam audio. I created a metaframe containing a handful of instances. I can load the metaframe just fine. But now, the application (VEPRO5 server) operates very slowly and hangs. Selecting different instances from the main server window or trying to Alt/Tab through instances either takes several minutes (yes minutes) or simply causes the machine to freeze. I'm glad to hear that a solution is in the works but I am basically stymied at this point.