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VE Pro 5, Kontakt 5: Distorted Audio during Tempo Changes
Last post Thu, Feb 25 2016 by Trailerman, 85 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Nov 08 2012 15:40
by Karel
Joined on Mon, Jan 19 2009, Belgium, Posts 2173

I haven't been able to reproduce this with other tempo synced plugins, so it seems like Kontakt (or one of its libraries) is eating a lot of CPU during tempo changes, causing crackles in large templates. It seems like a problem to solve by Native Instruments (or the specific library manufacturer).

Karel Bassez
Software Engineer
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Nov 08 2012 16:57
by Jongnic
Joined on Thu, Sep 16 2010, Posts 11

This only happens with Kontakt in VEPro with Cubase.  When I connect DP to the same instance of VEPro tempo changes work great.  Also when I had the same template with Logic I did not have a problem with tempo changes.  It potentially has something to do with the VST implementation?  Also when I load the libraries directly in Cubase tempo changes work fine as well.  So I am not sure the problem is in Kontakt.  If you want I can send you my VEPro Metaframe.

Jongnic Bontemps
Composer
Cubaseb 8.5 on 8-Core Mac Pro Windows 10 32GB Ram, Steinberg UR824
VE-Pro 5 on Intel Core i7 Windows 7 with 32GB
Posted on Thu, Nov 08 2012 17:01
by Talino
Joined on Sat, Jul 17 2010, Posts 260

Like I wrote above, Cubase + VEP + Kontakt used to work just fine. AFAIK it started out of the blue with no configuration change on my Mac.

MASTER: Cubase Pro 10.0.20, iMac 27 2015 i7 4.0 (17,1) 24gb RAM, OS X 10.14.4, RME Fireface UC. SLAVE: Mac Pro 2009 Quad 2.66 (4,1), 28gb RAM, OS X 10.11.6, Vienna Ensemble Pro 7, samples on OWC Accelsior SSD.
Posted on Thu, Nov 08 2012 18:26
by Karel
Joined on Mon, Jan 19 2009, Belgium, Posts 2173

I'm in contact with NI about this Kontakt issue, so hope is on the horizon.

Karel Bassez
Software Engineer
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Nov 23 2012 21:32
by bobulusbillman
Joined on Mon, Jul 09 2007, Posts 79

Any news? This has started happening for me too.

Posted on Sun, Feb 10 2013 21:01
by brett
Joined on Fri, Aug 19 2005, Australia, Posts 78

What's the latest from NI Karel?  I too am wrestling with this issue on Cubase 6 on PC. 

What about the other posters? Have any of you stumbled across a solution?

Brett

Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2013 05:04
by mc202vt
Joined on Mon, Feb 14 2005, Posts 21

I just had this issue with a tempo ramping down and a CPU spike and pops/clicks.

I went into each instance of Kontakt 5 and turned off the External tempo sync. FYI, it's in the Master section in BPM.

The problem totally went away.

BTW - I am running Cubase 7 in Windows 7 PC, with Ableton Live 8 and VEPro running as well. All in 64 bit.

Obviously a NI K5 issue.  Hope this helps

Posted on Mon, Mar 04 2013 23:03
by brett
Joined on Fri, Aug 19 2005, Australia, Posts 78

Thanks mc202. Yes I've tried this and it does indeed fix the issue, but it's not too useful if you are working with tempo matched loops :)

Any further info from NI Karel?

cheers - Brett

Posted on Mon, Mar 04 2013 23:06
by Karel
Joined on Mon, Jan 19 2009, Belgium, Posts 2173

I would suggest directing questions directly to NI. They will probably be able to give more information on why these issues occur.

Karel Bassez
Software Engineer
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Mar 04 2013 23:21
by brett
Joined on Fri, Aug 19 2005, Australia, Posts 78

Fair enough Karel.  It's just that you mentioned you were in contact with them in an earlier post above and so I figured you were far more likely to get a straight answer from them than I would.  Have they at least acknowledged it as an issue and flagged it for a fix?

B

Posted on Thu, Apr 25 2013 02:29
by EdouardB
Joined on Tue, Aug 03 2010, Posts 6
Are you guys running Altiverb in your projects by any chance?

I was able to remove clicks and pops described by the OP by removing all of my Altiverb instances. It's worth giving a try.

Cheers,
Edouard
Posted on Thu, Apr 25 2013 13:41
by labman
Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2010, Posts 111
Interesting EdouardB. Were they on the VEP axes or just inside your host session? What host please?
Posted on Thu, Apr 25 2013 15:21
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 269

I do not own or use Altiverb....in my case it specifically looks like the problem happens when I am using Kontakt inside of VE PRO....as I stated earlier Kontakt does not have this problem inside of Cubase only inside of VE PRO.

Posted on Thu, Apr 25 2013 17:47
by EdouardB
Joined on Tue, Aug 03 2010, Posts 6
Labman - I use Cubase 7.03 on a MacPro (ML 10.8.3). The 3 Altiverb instances are used on auxes inside Cubase.

Dlpmusic - looking at theActivity Monitor, there is definitely a surge in processor usage during tempo changes using Kontakt inside VEP with Cubase (as long as Kontakt is tempo-synced to the host). While the Altiverb "fix" alleviates the distorting audio for me, I will do more testing to try to lower that usage (and possible resulting distorting audio).

On another note, I did remove the buses inside VEP, and that seemed to have dramatically reduced CPU usage, too. Instead of submixing VI outputs inside VEP, I just route the VI outputs to VEP outputs. It may be worth trying for you.

I did contact NI regarding the Cubase/VEP/Kontakt/tempo ramps combo, and they have been of no help whatsoever.

Edouard
Posted on Sat, Nov 30 2013 22:09
by mc202vt
Joined on Mon, Feb 14 2005, Posts 21

Has anyone gotten further with this tempo change clicking in Kontakt 5 issue?

Someone earlier said that it only happens when Kontakt is in VEPro, I have proven this incorrect. It is happening when Kontakt is opened inside Cubase 7 here.

If you score film/TV, this issue is a huge one; I'm constantly trying to figure out how to work around this, but usually it's a huge inconvenience and time waster to solve. And I cannot write any accelerando or rallentandos, for sure.

Thoughts?  NI still doesn't quite feel film scoring composers rank high enough to sort out problems specific to them!

Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 00:18
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

For those people still having problems, did you test what I sugested over a year ago and use tempo jumps, rather than ramps?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 00:31
by mc202vt
Joined on Mon, Feb 14 2005, Posts 21

That solution does not solve the problem, whether it's a jump or a ramp, there is an audible click/pop at the tempo change.

Thanks,  Mr A

Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 18:55
by Jongnic
Joined on Thu, Sep 16 2010, Posts 11

That is my experience as well. Whether it's a jump or a ramp there is an audible pop.

I have not experienced this problem in DP or Logic which both use Audio Units. Also this does not happen with non kontakt instruments. So it appears this is a problem with the VST plugin version of kontakt for tempo synched instances. Is NI aware of this?

Jongnic Bontemps
Composer
Cubaseb 8.5 on 8-Core Mac Pro Windows 10 32GB Ram, Steinberg UR824
VE-Pro 5 on Intel Core i7 Windows 7 with 32GB
Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 22:26
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Hang on a second. Now I'm confused. Are you saying that with a Windows slave, running VEP with Kontakt, and a Logic/DP host machine, this is not a problem?

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Dec 01 2013 22:51
by Jongnic
Joined on Thu, Sep 16 2010, Posts 11

That is correct. This seems to be a problem with VST. Cubase running on windows connected to a VEPro slave on windows exhibits the same problem. Change the Daw to logic or DP using Audio units and tempo changes work with no distortion.  

Jongnic Bontemps
Composer
Cubaseb 8.5 on 8-Core Mac Pro Windows 10 32GB Ram, Steinberg UR824
VE-Pro 5 on Intel Core i7 Windows 7 with 32GB
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