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  4. The origin of the God of Chugga-Chugga

  • The origin of the God of Chugga-Chugga

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    O.K., I decided to put this a little more seriously...

    I have noticed that the so-called "Epic" style of current film music, found in trailers and in various action, fantasy, medieval, adventure, even contemporary films was absolutely UNKNOWN before a certain very original film and music useage appeared in the 1980s which has been imitated over and over again, and now has generalized and devolved into cliches nowadays.   It always struck me that the minimalism of Carmina Burana by Carl Orff as used in "Excalibur" by John Boorman - with its repeated rhythmic motifs in strings,  heavy brass, huge percussion punctuations, and staccato fortissimo choir - is being stolen by composers over and over today. I think that many of them don't even KNOW they are stealing from it, because it has been transmitted downwards from that lofty origin.  Now you can hear it underscoring scenes of giant robots fighting.  The fact that it was originally in a medieval film that had a huge impact and was extremely original for the time,  is even more convincing to me.   I still remember seeing this film when it first came out.  There had been nothing like it before.  Medieval warfare and fantasy had never been treated so vividly.  Now it may seem just a normal film of the kind, but that is because of its influence upon later films - and film music.    Here is a representative scene -



     

  • M
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    Hi William,

           I wonder whether or not Jerry Goldsmith may have been similarly inspired by a similar type of sound etc when composing for the Omen in 1975. In particular with his Ave Satani. Unfortunately for me, this music has stuck in my head ever since first seeing the film all those years ago. I agree that there seems to be a lack of originality not only on some of the soundtracks but in the film world in general. Too much emphasis on coming up with a winning formula and too many of the big studios too risk averse (which I can understand considering the budgets some of these films require). It's a real pity. It's great though when films with a lesser budget however with better plots, acting, soundtracks outperform and catch the big studios out.

    Just my thoughts on the subject although I must confess to not being as clued up as most other members on soundtracks.

    Tom
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    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/29276/188802.aspx#188802 

    This is one past thread of many where this ponderable was explored (for any newcomers to survey), I don't have much to add since, except that the situation is getting worse - more and more companies are releasing software (de)generating such abominable and trite variables on the push of a button; and that the score to the Omen was among Goldsmith's best, single-handedly awarding A status to a B-grade film (didn't even have a full orchestra). 

    If people want to a) write 'Crap' music, worse b) imitate 'Crap' music (see Two Mouse-Clicks from Hell), and worst c) Use the wheelchair software/libraries to thatch 'Crap' music together, there's little to be done apart from whining provocatively here, as long as producers/directors don't know any better (ignorant turds), hence don't demand any better.

    I struggle to think where I have heard emptier music in my life than this trailer-shyte, and nothing comes to mind. The two kinds of music I hate the most are our own bouzouki music here, and Hip-Hop. I believe both of those dreaded music categories contain more music than all that banging and clanging and screaming. The only music I hate even more is any TV/film track featuring that - ubiquitous these days - wretched forlorn female vocalise, but that's another thread...
  • W
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    Errikos What are you referring to on the forlorn females? The breathy, somewhat New-Age burblings one hears now and then for instant poignance?

    I agree Tom on "The Omen."  That is one of my all-time favorite scores. Another example of a score that is a thousand times better than its movie.  Like Herrmann's "Obsession."    It is somewhat odd how "The Omen" seems most derived from another favorite, "The Lion in Winter" by John Barry.  Not stolen, but just very influenced.  Both of those scores are absolutely beautiful.

    By the way, "Excalibur" also has a great use of Wagner's Siegfried funeral music that the film was cut to, especially at the end.  You could put it down as a mere tempt track, and appropriation of something foreign to the film (i.e. the opera) but it is so perfect musically that no composer could ever do anything new that was better.  Of course writing better music than Wagner is a bit of a challenge.

    Here is that scene - the way this is cut to the music is almost uncanny it is so perfect for every change of mood or story idea --
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    @William said:

    Errikos What are you referring to on the forlorn females? The breathy, somewhat New-Age burblings one hears now and then for instant poignance?

    Exactly those, with the middle-eastern elegiac style that makes them so topical, immediately decontextualizing the "music" from the film. Complete and unmitigated lack of imagination from the composters again... AAARGH!!! [+o(]

    Good point on the YouTube excerpt.
  • R
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    @William said:

    which has been imitated over and over again, and now has generalized and devolved into cliches nowadays.  

    Very poor imititaions I might add. Listen to as many of the recordings of Carmina Burana as possible  up on YouTube as can be tolerated in one night-be sure to catch Seji Ozawa and the Berlin Philharmonic Fantastic! Nothing like it ! Ever!  some of the groups have trouble with the complexities of the syncopations; this shows what I'm talking about. Anyhow. to see what I mean about the underlying rhythm is often offset by counterpoint that gives  faster and slower subtexts played at the same time

    Chuga Chuga really does not fit Orff's work as the subtleties Orff places under neath and around that basic beat can't really be defined.
  • W
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    Yes, Orff is a great composer and it just struck me how what he did in this work, a deliberate minimalism, has been incredibly imitated in detail, probably because of its filtering through this particular film, not its performance in concert halls. 

  • W
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     These are the specific things featured in this score by Carl Orff which are now the stock in trade of "Epic" scoring:

    1) Repeated staccato string ostinati in a short, syncopated pattern

    2) Heavy combined percussion accents on first beat, with pick-up, using timpani, bass drum and tam-tam

    3) Choir staccato shouts FF

    4) Minor key alternating with mixolydian major - that is a BIG part of the "Epic" sound.

    5) Brass fanfares

    The "Epic" sound though is a generic dumbing-down of all this, using block chords, percussion "hits"  and sampled masses of sound, unlike the fastidious and precise orchestral/choral  scoring of Orff.
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    Even with the recipe at hand they simply cannot write a 102nd-rate Carmina Burana. Aren't they just the saddest these current orkestral composters ('orks' for short)? Without a single synapsis capable of musical thought in their heads,  they bungle it with all the "right" software with the ready-made phrases, voicings, harmonies, and groupings; but the more self-rising musical dough they mix(!) in the oven, the flatter and less e(au)dible the music that spews out of it...

    How did we ever end up with that many DJs and (b)loopers meddling with symphonic music in so few years? I fear that we are not Two Steps away anymore...
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    What is being written is little kiddie-tunes, but scored with a huge sound. 
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on