Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
Basic PC Setup!?!?!
Last post Sat, Sep 01 2012 by Mike B Studios, 23 replies.
Options
Go to last post
2 Pages12>
Posted on Sun, Aug 26 2012 13:28
by MrHollandsOpus
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2011, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Posts 5
Hi,

Recently, my templates and sample libraries have been a bit overwhelming for my PC. At the moment I'm using a newish Del Intel i7,16 GB of ram at 1333, 1Tb, Windows 7 64 bit,etc.

I was wondering where to go from here to improve my systems stability.

1) Should I buy and use solely a Mac instead of my PC? And if so, which one and what specs?
2)Should I buy and use a slave in addition to my PC? And if so which one should I purchase for my slave?

3b) Can anyone explain to me how a slave is setup and how it works?

Thanks in advance!!
Ben
Posted on Sun, Aug 26 2012 14:54
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Getting a Mac or PC (although a Mac is a PC) makes no difference, except
that Windows is faster than OSX and audio applications generally work better on Windows than OSX. However, if you prefer OSX, then there's nothing wrong with that, but just be aware that this choice won't give you improved performance.

Therefore, you need to find out where the botteneck is, and act accordingly (no matter which OS). What is being overwhelmed? Is your ASIO meter overloading? Are your discs not able to keep up? A full description will help narrow down where the problem lies.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Aug 26 2012 22:52
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5497

You should get more RAM, probably at least 24 GB.  A slave is a very good idea because then you can devote one entire computer for the really difficult work - playing back samples.    Especially considering how DAWs have gotten so large and inefficient with all kinds of things that are not needed but use up resources. 

You can set up a slave with the superfast ethernet type setup, but I've never bothered to do that.  I just use a MIDI interface between the two, and have a sound card in each, and then connect the output of the slave to the input of the DAW computer.  You can insert a lot of fancy things, but that is all that is really needed.   

Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 05:35
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2649
DG wrote:

Getting a Mac or PC (although a Mac is a PC) makes no difference, except
that Windows is faster than OSX and audio applications generally work better on Windows than OSX. However, if you prefer OSX, then there's nothing wrong with that, but just be aware that this choice won't give you improved performance.

DG please stop saying thing you cannot prove !

DG, how can you say " Audio apps works better on Windows"

On my musical  Mac if I have a crash or two per year it is the maximun

Late crashes where due to VSL, and VSL have fixed the cause !

I will repeat me again, this has not been proved since VSL re-wrote a lot of the code to improve Mac version.

I have proposed many time to do a bench mark so we know !

If you want to improve your PC  put VSL lib on a SSD  ! you will not reconize your PC

As William suggested  adding more memory can help too, but with a ssd you can reduce the preload buffers and load much more in memory avoiding swapping

DG how do you know that a PC is swaping ?

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 08:14
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

Ben,

I too agree with William. The more RAM the better, and for large projects, one or more slaves should make all the difference.

One or more SSD's, as Cyril says is a complete game changer as well.

If you can do all of the above, by all means please do.

As for Mac vs. PC..... If in fact Mac's are somehow inferior in matters of Audio or Video, someone better tell the Audio / Video community.

It's one thing for VSL to announce its products perform better on PC's.

How this morphs into Audio Programs in general performing better on PC's, I have no idea.

If a Mac is in your budget, buy a Mac. If not you can not beat the bang for your buck in the PC world.

When given the choice I prefer Macs but use both daily.

Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 08:50
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Cyril wrote:

DG please stop saying thing you cannot prove !

DG, how can you say " Audio apps works better on Windows"

On my musical  Mac if I have a crash or two per year it is the maximun

Late crashes where due to VSL, and VSL have fixed the cause !

I will repeat me again, this has not been proved since VSL re-wrote a lot of the code to improve Mac version.

I have proposed many time to do a bench mark so we know !

 

Cyril, I know that you love your Mac, but that doesn't alter the facts I'm afraid. There are so may tests already in existence that prove what I'm saying, that I'm getting rather tired of having to tell you every time. However, in the spirit of Anglo/French relations, here is a link for you to consider.

http://forum.dawbench.com/showthread.php?1801-DAWbench-Universal-Suite-Results-Database-In-Progress

There are various tests here, and if you want to test them youself, just download the test and have a go.

Cyril wrote:

If you want to improve your PC  put VSL lib on a SSD  ! you will not recognise your PC

As William suggested  adding more memory can help too, but with a ssd you can reduce the preload buffers and load much more in memory avoiding swapping

DG how do you know that a PC is swapping ?

 

You can check in Task Manager, but there are two ways to avoid this (not that I've bothered with either, because I am not short of memory):

  1. Make sure you have a few GB spare. Without meaning to annoy you, OSX seems to need a larger memory buffer than Windows in order to avoid using swap, so it is usually less of a problem.
  2. Don't have a page file.

These both worked in XP, but I haven't tried them in Windows 7, because I haven't needed to.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 08:58
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Mike B Studios wrote:

Ben,

I too agree with William. The more RAM the better, and for large projects, one or more slaves should make all the difference.

One or more SSD's, as Cyril says is a complete game changer as well.

If you can do all of the above, by all means please do.

As for Mac vs. PC..... If in fact Mac's are somehow inferior in matters of Audio or Video, someone better tell the Audio / Video community.

 

 Mike, firstly video has nothing to do with audio applications. Their requirements are very different to our own. Even so, there are many Avid systems using Windows, so it's not true to say that the video community is wholly Mac based, even allowing for history.

As far as audio applications are concerned, it all depends on what you're using and what you need to do. Studios that do a lot of recording are mostly using Pro tools, which has built in DSP, and therefore avoids problems that either OS have with running many tracks at low latency. It is also one of the few cross-platform audio applications that works better in OSX than Windows, although most of that is due to the fact that it works far worse than most others on Windows!

It's also not a matter of being inferior, as if something is wrong with either platform. it is a matter of which performs best for particular duties, and it is a fact that Windows performs better at low latency than OSX. If you don't need low latency, then it doesn't matter.

Mike B Studios wrote:

It's one thing for VSL to announce its products perform better on PC's.

How this morphs into Audio Programs in general performing better on PC's, I have no idea.

 

Have a look at the link that I posted for Cyril, if you want some facts.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 09:44
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2649

Those bench marks are old made with 10.6 

10.6 is many year old !!!!!!!

The re-writing of VSL VE and VI date from beggining of 2012

Make sure you have a few GB spare. Without meaning to annoy you, OSX seems to need a larger memory buffer than Windows in order to avoid using swap, so it is usually less of a problem.

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 12:07
by Karel
Joined on Mon, Jan 19 2009, Belgium, Posts 2173

The performance hasn't improved significantly in 10.7 or 10.8 as far as I know.

The optimizations done to VI (Pro) either apply to both platforms or were made to make the OS X version perform as well as the Windows version. But VI/VE has nothing to do whatsoever with dawbench.com's measurements.

Karel Bassez
Software Engineer
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 15:05
by Heike
Joined on Sat, Oct 15 2011, Posts 16

Hi Ben, I work on a similar (custom built) configuration as you but my software is stored on a SSD and the libraries on another SSD. A full symphony orchestra with MIR24 works flawlessly for me.

Good luck, Heike

Intel i7-7820X, 32 GB, 3xSSD, Windows 10 pro 64 bit, Sibelius 2018, Cubase Pro 10, VSL Dimension Brass, Orchestral Strings + Woodwinds, solo strings I, Vienna Imperial, Drums&Toms, Timpani, Alto Saxophone, Contrabassoon, Solo Violin 2, Solo Cello 2, Piccolo, SE Percussion, Vienna Suite, VI Pro 2, VE Pro 7, Vienna Mir24, CFX Synchron standard, Steinway synchron extended; Synchron-ized dimension brass I
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 19:55
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

DG,

I understand the differences between Video Post Production and Audio, I deal with both daily. So for me, the line between the two has become all but nonexistent. But you are correct, Video misses the point here.

At (for-profit) studios, whether we like it or not, Pro Tools is KIng, which is precisely why the majority of these studios run Mac's.

As you've said, ProTools runs better on a Mac.

No, Mac's are not exclusively used for Audio or Video, but do dominate each industry at the highest levels.

I use BOTH (Mac's and PC's) every single day. My preference happens to be the Mac.

Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 22:03
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Mike B Studios wrote:

At (for-profit) studios, whether we like it or not, Pro Tools is KIng, which is precisely why the majority of these studios run Mac's.

As you've said, ProTools runs better on a Mac.

No, Mac's are not exclusively used for Audio or Video, but do dominate each industry at the highest levels.

Mike, I understand what you're saying, but when you talk about highest levels, you are talking about recording. My studio is working at just as high a level as anything recorded at Abbey Road, it's just that my work is primarily linked to MIDI. Therefore for composers who primarily use MIDI, rather than solely audio, Macs don't dominate to the same degree, and even if they did, that wouldn't necessarily mean that they were better for the task. After all, the dominance is due to history in the 90s, when applications like Pro Tools were Mac only.

Anyway, I don't see the point in labouring this any further. The solution is simple; people should use what they prefer and accept that both Windows and OSX have plus points as well as minus points. Which compromise you choose to accept is a personal matter.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Aug 27 2012 23:55
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

DG,

Agreed..... The World needs both, and the choice is very personal.

Posted on Tue, Aug 28 2012 01:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5497

Mike B Studios wrote:

No, Mac's are not exclusively used for Audio or Video, but do dominate each industry at the highest levels.

 

The reason Macs dominate in any company - audio or video - is because of the natural industrial sluggishness of being unwilling to change to something better.  Not because of any inherent superiority.  To assert that Macs are needed for the "highest levels" is deeply ignorant.  And indicative of the success of the corporate mind-control of consumers.  Ironically, on the part of Apple. 

Also, this post is so subtle in its insult - anyone who is using other than Apple is NOT on the highest level.   In other words, struggling along at a low level.  Thanks.  

Posted on Tue, Aug 28 2012 05:30
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2649
William wrote:

The reason Macs dominate in any company - audio or video - is because of the natural industrial sluggishness of being unwilling to change to something better.  

Sorry again William !!!!!

Audio and Video demand a lot of processing power, and Apple has always put high end processor in it's computers, that is explaining why Mac are expensive i.e. if you put 2 processors that cost 1200 $ each you cannot sell it at 1000 $

Macpro are made with processors that are not used in a common PC, they are made with processors that are used by server in the PC word.

If you compare a PC and a MAC with the same components, there is hardly any difference in prices, it's a few 100 $ less or more

Mac os has the reputation of relyability symplicity, one PC journalist, a pure Mac ennemy,  decided to try a Mac one day, his conclusion is , a Mac is simple to use and it is working

Only the an application can crash, and that is affecting the system !

You do not need to re-install Mac os X every so often.

In the French press :

 Un sondage rapporte que 95% des possesseurs de Mac n'envisagent pas d'acheter autre chose et pour les utilisateurs de PC, 30% songent fortement à s'équiper d'un Mac dans l'avenir.

Translation :

A survey reports that 95% of the owners of Mac do not plan to buy another thing and for the users of PC, 30% strongly think of being equipped with Mac in the future.

If one day Apple decided to make Mac with low end processors at te price of a low end PC, they will sell like hot buns

Microsoft is THE pirate, you get feature in Windows that we have in Mac os since 2 or 3 years !!!!

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Aug 28 2012 06:01
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

William,

So nice to hear from you.

I think DG knows what I meant. You on the other hand, tend to rage against the machine.

Anything other than your " home remedies", are considered "fancy".

Those who dare speak of modern emenities are "bragging".

I'm going to leave it there because the last time you and I clashed, Paul intervened and I immediately aplogized.

Did you bother apologizing William?

No.

You remained silent as if you had nothing to do with it.

So I'll try again.... William, for what happened between you and I not so very long ago, I sincerely apologize.

Have a good night...

Posted on Tue, Aug 28 2012 13:23
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7397

If this thread continues to serve the old, beaten-to-death Windows vs. Mac discussion and/or personal animosities, it will be closed.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Aug 28 2012 17:06
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5497

 O.K., thanks Mike, I also apologize. 

Posted on Tue, Aug 28 2012 19:21
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

Big Smile

Posted on Sat, Sep 01 2012 04:30
by kelvynchin
Joined on Fri, Aug 31 2012, Posts 2
Hi everyone,
I am new here and am thinking of getting the vienna special edition vol 1. I have been writing music (ensemble and orchestral) for a while now but am basically an amateur, I do it as a hobby. I used creative soundfonts to render the MIDI and notate using finale.

Basically I 'm considering upgrading to VSL. Since this is a hobby, my budget is somewhat limited, and the full edition is really expensive. I have some questions that i hope you gurus here can help before I take the plunge?

1. If i'm just using a basic PC (win 7, intel duo core 2.3Ghz, 2-4GB RAM, 700GB HD etc, ie. a very basic pc or laptop), will I be able to use VSL and their software (I assume i'm getting the ensemble and instrucments software)

2. The special ed vol 1 (lets call it VSL SE 1) has samples for 28 instruments, but no Bb trumpet. If I have a MIDI file for my score which has Bb trumpets and I render it using only the VSLSE1, what would happen?

3. The VSLSE1 has solo and ensemble samples. I'm not sure how I will be using them? OK, if I score for a single clarinet, that's fine. What if I score for 2 or 3 clarinets, will the VSLSE1 be sufficient? Can I double up (i.e two staves of the same solo instrument).

4. How much tweaking on the vienna software will I need after I generate the MIDI file from Finale and do the MIDI channels(?) match? What I mean is, if I scored for say strings and a solo piano on Finale, generate the MIDI file, then run it through the vienna software with the VSLSE1, will I automatically get a pretty good sound rendering or output ? How do you save the final output? I used creative products previously and what I did was use a recorder to record it in Wav format, then burn onto a CD. I suppose this can be done similarly.

5. Finally, any recommendations on my choice of "first" library? I will most likely not get the PLUS versions yet, but I do understand that the full 4 sets including the PLUS libraries are cheaper in a bundle. *sigh*

Well, thanks to all in advance. Looking forward to writing more life-like music in future.
2 Pages12>
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.