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Differences between Expression and Volume ?
Last post Sat, Sep 22 2012 by wwzeitler, 6 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2012 03:34
by ondine
Joined on Thu, Jan 26 2012, Posts 49
There are options at the bottom of the slider in VI for master volume and for expression.
I noticed that when expression is set low, then I can't hear the sound.
I was wondering if Expression works the same as Master Volume in VSL ?
Or if expression only works for some of the patches in VSL.

In other words, does the change of expression parameter in VSL trigger different layers of samples ?
Or does it only control the volume of the instrument ?

Thanks.
Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2012 14:03
by wwzeitler
Joined on Sat, Jun 06 2009, Los Angeles, Posts 59

Expression (CC11) and Volume (CC7) both control volume. The idea, however, is that you will use Expression to control phrasing--little crescendi/decresendi within a passage that make it expressive (hence the name 'Expression' controller). Use Volume to control the overall volume of the passage. Thus you typically might have one Volume/CC7 at the beginning of a passage, and hundreds (or more) Expression/CC11's in the course of a passage.The virtue of this approach is that if you want to adjust the volume for the mix, you only change the one Volume/CC7. Of course real-life usage isn't always quite this simple, but that's the idea.

Composer :: Glass Armonica :: Piano :: Organ
www.WIlliamZeitler.com
www.GrailHeart.com
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2012 18:41
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740

Hello Ondine

Maybe you already know it but for all others who are new:

In connection with VSL-Samples you should use the X-Velocity function for creating a dynamic volume instead of CC07 and CC11.

Why?

Because a natural instrument also creates another sound with a fff tone than with a ppp one you should use X-Velocity.

It changes the volume and also the different available Sample Layers for getting a closer result to the reality.

CC07 and CC11 only change the volume. This is more midi-like. 

More about X-Velocity here: http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vi-tips--tricks-3/index.php  > 24A) - 24C)

Here  is Bach's Air with X-Velocity. http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/downloads/bk_air_matthias_church.mp3

(1st part Chamberstrings II, 2nd part Appassionata Strings, played in the Matthias Church (INSP:IR)

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2012 21:43
by noldar12
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 582

The only issue with using x-fade is that for solo instruments the resulting phasing may, or may not, be a problem for what you are seeking to do.  Some tend to use x-fade primarily on the ensemble patches: 6 violins, 8 cellos, etc.

If you have the full libraries, learning to use the dynamics patches can also be a real help, as those patches, even for solo instruments, avoid the phasing issues.  For subtle changes within a phrase, the dynamics patches may not work quite as well.  Another option would be to use the dynamics patches combined with cc11 expression.

Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2012 22:07
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740
noldar12 wrote:
The only issue with using x-fade is that for solo instruments the resulting phasing may, or may not, be a problem for what you are seeking to do.  Some tend to use x-fade primarily on the ensemble patches: 6 violins, 8 cellos, etc.

Noldar12 tells the truth - unfortunately.

Obviously there are two sides to everything. Sad

So use X-velocity at least for ensemble sounds Smile

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sat, Sep 22 2012 14:22
by wwzeitler
Joined on Sat, Jun 06 2009, Los Angeles, Posts 59

Personally I use both C07/C11 (volume) AND velocity x-fade. C07/C11 have no phasing issues, but velocity x-fade does mimic the characteristic that instruments played louder have different harmonic content (generally MORE). For me, using one, the other, or both simultaneously all have their place. Let your ears be your guide!

Composer :: Glass Armonica :: Piano :: Organ
www.WIlliamZeitler.com
www.GrailHeart.com
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