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Back up Vienna Key
Last post Sun, Jan 17 2021 by lupine, 36 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Oct 21 2012 21:41
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

If one were to lose everything from his existing Vienna Key due to the key failing for any reason, can it all be replaced?  Or, do you think it is necessary to buy a second key and back up the first one?

Thanks,

Mike

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Sun, Oct 21 2012 23:17
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

Her we go....

Michael C,

This is a fierce topic of debate in this forum.

It is not possible to backup your key with a second key.... It is not allowed.

If your key fails, and it's out of warranty, VSL may work with you, but they don't have to.

If your key fails and it is in warranty (2 years) you are in luck.

The idea that most VSL users find out about the 2 year warranty from DG and not VSL, is a problem.

If your key is lost or stolen.......   Tongue Tied       You may want to read the License Agreement.

Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 17:04
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

Wait a minute, are you telling me there is no way to protect my investment?  I have spent thousands of dollars on VSL/VI software over the years and if my key went bad they wouldn't honor that and would make me pay for everything again?!  That just can't be right, it would be business suicide!

There must be another solution here.  Can one buy a new key to replace the old one, download all licenses on to it, and, in essence, have a new key that WOULD be under warranty again for 2 years?

Thanks,

Mike

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 17:22
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Michael C. wrote:

Wait a minute, are you telling me there is no way to protect my investment?  I have spent thousands of dollars on VSL/VI software over the years and if my key went bad they wouldn't honor that and would make me pay for everything again?!  That just can't be right, it would be business suicide!

There must be another solution here.  Can one buy a new key to replace the old one, download all licenses on to it, and, in essence, have a new key that WOULD be under warranty again for 2 years?

Thanks,

Mike

Not that you want to hear from me, but I'll tell you anyway:

  1. Buy a new key every 2 years and transfer the licences to it. That way if the key breaks you will be able to recover all your licences (I think that there may be a small admin fee).
  2. You need to have insurance against loss or theft of your key, otherwise you may well have to buy all your products again, should you have a burglary at your studio.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 17:33
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1042

Is there any way to tell (in eLicencer) just how old a particular key is?

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 17:40
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

I don't know. I would recommend registering it as soon as you get it, and this will also show VSL which products are on which key.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 17:48
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

It seems we ll have questions but few answers.  I'm getting a bit worried about what I'm reading about the Vienna Key and warranties.  I honestly wish someone from VI would answer these questions for us.  I have only ever written to people from VI with technical questions.  Does anyone have a good idea who to write to about issues such has protecting your investment?

Thanks,

Mike

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 17:55
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

I just wrote an email to VI Suport and asked them the questions we've been discussing here.  I'll share what I find out when they respond.

Mike

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 18:25
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

OK, I have not heard back from VI Support yet, but I called ILIO, a big distributor of VI products in the USA, and asked them about the Vienna Key and here's what I was told:

1.     The key connot be backed up.

2.     The warranty on the key itself is 2 years.  If it goes bad after two years the cost of the key is not covered, and you have to pay a fee for each license that you own.  As Steinberg owns the rights to the key, apparently there is about a $30 fee PER license to replace them.  If the key is lost or stolen, you are most likely OUT-OF-LUCK and would probably have to re-purchase all VI software.  In my case, this would be devastating and I would most likely never buy anything from VI again as long as I live!  :-)

3.     You can purchase a new key and transfer all licenses from your old key and the new one would carry a warranty of two years.  So, to be safe, replace your key every two years.  It's about $27.00 from ILIO and worth the investment.

4.     In the case of theft, in my case someone would have to steal my gigantic desktop computer, if you were to file a police report and send it to VI, they may work with you by offering your original software for half-price, but they are under no obligation to do so.  It makes me want to buy a separate safe JUST for my Vienna Key and lock it up every night.

Some of this I find acceptable, some I think is a bit outrageous.  If my key goes bad out of warranty, I can understand I'd have to buy a new one.  Why on earth I would have to pay Steinberg a $30 fee per license is beyond me!  Also, the fact that all your purchases are registered with VI should be enough proof to them that you bought and own them so that, in the case of theft, you could simply download the software again or get replacement DVDs.  The idea of having to pay for them again is really a bad business decision in my estimation.  Well, perhaps it is a GREAT business decision, but it is a bad customer service choice.  :-)

I am buying a new key this week and will continune to do so every two years and pray that my house is never robbed!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I nkow so far.  If VI Suport has more to add, I'll share it.

Mike

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 18:42
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1042

How is the start date of the 2 year warrenty period calculated?  Date manufactured? Date purchased?  Date registered?  Other then registering with VSL, how does anyone know how old it is?

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 19:42
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

The License Agreement says things it doesn't really mean.

An important portion of number 6 states:

"Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH reserves the right to block its Licenses saved on the lost ViennaKey

or on any other lost USB eLicenser upon being notified by the registered user of the loss."

If in fact VSL could do this, there would be no reason not to replace those licenses with new ones.

As it turns out, while technology probably exists to allow the block, it's just not that simple.

Legally can an Austrian company block a key held in the United States? Can the United States block a key held in China?

Can China block a key held in Russia?

I suspect much of the Agreement was drafted before VSL became VSL... Size matters and as a now global major player,

there are probably a number of things in the Agreement that can not be enforced world wide.

Perhaps we'll see a new License Agreement on the new website.

Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 20:04
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Mike, I would have thought that the only way to block the licence would be if the dongle is connected to the Internet. I would imagine that the clause is there to cover VSL in case this blocking actually becomes a possibility. That way there would be no screams from people saying that they didn't sign up for that. A bit like having the Publishing rights of some music for this Universe and all future known Universes.

Only my speculation though.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 20:57
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

Yes DG, that is of course another way to look at it.

To Bills point... My first key remained on a shelf for a year before I opened it.

I thank you DG for repeatedly trumpeting the 2 year warranty, many of us would not be aware without you.  Smile

Posted on Mon, Oct 22 2012 22:28
by Michael C.
Joined on Thu, Jun 26 2003, Minneapolis, MN, USA, Posts 469

We really need someone from VI to get involved in this discussion.  Smile

Please!  We promise not to bite!

M

————————————————
Windows 10 Pro.
Cubase Pro 9.5
Intel core i7-8700 8th Gen Coffee Lake 6-core w/HT 3.7 GHz.
5 Samsung SSD drives, (1 TB, 4-2TB).
64GB DDR4 3200 RAM.
ARC 1883LP 12GB/s SAS 4+4 RAID controller.
16USB ports.
Intel Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Presonus Quantum audio interface.
Hornberger HB1 breath controller.
Billions of Vienna Instrument samples!
Posted on Tue, Oct 23 2012 00:01
by PhilipTImofeyev
Joined on Sun, Sep 02 2012, Posts 2

I've been wondering this as well. I refuse to believe that if something happens to the small and fragile usb stick the owner would be out thousands of dollars. That is way too much of a risk on such a big investment.

Isn't the point of the elicence control center to manage this type of stuff? If the card gets stolen or broken, why would it be difficult to void the licenses on it and give new ones?

Applying tangible product rules to software just doesn't make sense. 

Posted on Tue, Oct 23 2012 05:21
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325
In my experience with a large other brand of electronic licensing dongle used by a large other brand of virtual instruments, when my key was stolen from me I only had to buy a new key and register it to the same account, and the other software company downloaded my old licenses onto that account. This wasn't written in the license terms but one free replacement was included in case of theft or damage. From what I understand from that experience, the companies that make the dongles can also retrieve licenses from a key that is simply broken (as long as it isn't absolutely demolished) and going that route would not cost you the one free replacement because they would have the old licenses back in their possession. I wonder if VSL or Steinberg have any similar policies but choose to keep them quiet (to prevent handing out so many free licenses) and opt to discuss it with individual customers when the situation arises.



Just a disclaimer, that experience was not with VSL or Steinberg and does not necessarily represent their policies in any way, I'm just wondering out loud.
Posted on Tue, Oct 23 2012 05:46
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410
Michael C. wrote:

We really need someone from VI to get involved in this discussion.  Smile

Please!  We promise not to bite!

M

In the past when this topic came up, we've seen the thread run many pages before VSL chimed in.

At that time the only reason they did chime in was because the thread was getting ugly. The more members thought about it,

the more angry they became. Law suits were threatened, piracy was suggested.... At that point VSL spoke.

Posted on Tue, Oct 23 2012 05:52
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410
Casiquire wrote:
In my experience with a large other brand of electronic licensing dongle used by a large other brand of virtual instruments, when my key was stolen from me I only had to buy a new key and register it to the same account, and the other software company downloaded my old licenses onto that account. This wasn't written in the license terms but one free replacement was included in case of theft or damage. From what I understand from that experience, the companies that make the dongles can also retrieve licenses from a key that is simply broken (as long as it isn't absolutely demolished) and going that route would not cost you the one free replacement because they would have the old licenses back in their possession. I wonder if VSL or Steinberg have any similar policies but choose to keep them quiet (to prevent handing out so many free licenses) and opt to discuss it with individual customers when the situation arises.

The case by case handling of these issues was one of the points of anger in earlier threads...

One poster felt he was left hanging, while someone else said VSL had worked with them.

Posted on Tue, Oct 23 2012 21:50
by ralf
Joined on Sat, Feb 22 2003, Ennetach/Germany, Posts 57

Hmm..

Right now this topic is the reason I don't buy any more licenses! It's very hard, I'd love to get the dimension brass stuff next... Crying

According to my eLicenser (that is as old as when VSL requested it) there are quite a few licenses already registered with it. I don't see why I should buy a dongle every two years just to have some (dongle)warranty. As far as I understand it a license don't work this way. I also never got informed by VSL about this matter...

The german right also says that an owner has the right to backup a license or should be able to retrieve it. In my eyes VSL has very little information flow in that matter. Not sure if VSL would do the trick in my case or a lawyer would do it...

I hate this dongle because of these reasons. Lightning

Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2012 00:28
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2694
ralf wrote:

The german right also says that an owner has the right to backup a license or should be able to retrieve it. In my eyes VSL has very little information flow in that matter. Not sure if VSL would do the trick in my case or a lawyer would do it...

I hate this dongle because of these reasons. Lightning

It is the same in France and in most of the countries ; VSL should provide a way to backup the licences

This subject comes back almost every month

VSL does not listen

I have subscribe a juridical insurance

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