I have a dream !

A  «notation software» made by YOU wonderful VSL Team…
A software to Write Music and perfectly adapted to the VSL Library…

I feel that you are close to such a thing !

I have a dream

Thanks VSL

Would be the logic continuation...

Alain

You beat me to this Bill.  I was just coming back to post that link which perhaps you posted in the Finale forum? 

At any rate, I would be interested in a notation software that worked seamlessly with VSL.  It seems that Finale is invested in Garritan.  I'm not sure what Sibelius uses, but there always seem to be little quirks when it comes to using VSL. 

We'll stay tuned. 

noldar12 makes some good points.  I don't think it would be a winning proposition for VSL to develop a notation program.  Rather it would be smart to "team up" with maybe the new Steinberg developers to come up with something that integrates seamlessly with VSL.  That way the companies' investments in the products that undoubtedly have different markets are better placed.  Think of how many non-VSL users might be interested in a Steinberg notation software (assuming it's a competitive product with the current players).  Likewise think of how many VSL users who could care less about a notation product.  

jc5, for better or worse, what you have outlined provides the reason why many work first in a notation program and then import the notation file into a sequencer.  Each type of program does some things very well and other things not so well.

OTOH, Steinberg could come up with something, and in terms of notation, even now they are far ahead of Sonar.  While I still use Sonar, Sonar has not updated their notation in over a decade, and it cannot even correctly notate some very basic notation requirements (like triplets).

As for writing a "hair pin", how would the software interpret that?  Perhaps the composer wants to use velocity x-fade, or perhaps a straight expression pedal increase (cc 11), depending on instrument and/or desired sound, or even a mix of both.  Depending on the passage it might be a short crescendo going from pp < ff or a long crescendo going just from mp < f, etc., etc., etc.  Each one will likely be very different.  IMO, there really is no way around detailed editing to get the desired effect.

I would dare say that
most of the people here (and other orchestral lib users) no longer use
VSL for 'mock ups'... but rather as the end product. Therefore the most
'life like' results are of paramount importance. If you hear a really
decent VSL rendering it's 100% sure that the source MIDI would bear only
a passing resemblance to the notation one would give to players for a 'real' performance.

So where things are now is that we have all these one note special purpose libs and patches for glissandos, brass rips, tremolos, etc.which have no 'MIDI' or notation value at all... they're just triggered FX. Because there's no way with standard MIDI to do them.

Now Steinberg has a good part of the solution: VST Expression. But who really supports it? No one. So things are stuck.

It would be a -fraction- of the effort for VSL to incorporate Steinberg's tech into their lib as it would be to create a notation program. Maybe that would kick other vendors Sibelius/Finale? into supporting it as well. I wonder how Logic would feel about it.

It would also require VSL to create an UBER MATRIX for each instrument that incorporates -all- the gestures a real player uses in a typical performance so that one could put a complete performance on a single MIDI track... and thus a single notation staff. If you think Dimension Strings is RAM hungry, I can only imagine how much RAM even a few such instruments would require. Perhaps the answer likes in virtual instruments

Iifn short, one must currently choose between 'realism' and notation. There is no middle ground. And the user-base (and the marketplace) have spoken... they care less and less about music based on traditional skills so I seriously doubt whether such a 'dream' will ever be realised.

Within a few years, I doubt there will be more than a few commercial 'composers' who even read music well enough to prepare a traditional score. Sample-based DAW productions will be the normal end product and when/if 'real' players are required, one will simply hire a new breed of 'MIDI Copyists' to create an approximation in notation.And slowly, the whole concept of 'orchestration' will die because no one will give a 2nd thought to what is actually playable... Sort of like that guy Conlon Nancarrow and his Music For Player Pianos.

As a result, these MIDI Copyists will be well paid and people will guard referrals -very- carefully because they will be expected to translate DAW/MIDI renderings that will often contain -many- unplayable passages. And eventually? As samples get even better and the translations to notation become ever more disappointing, the whole idea of translating -anything- generated in a DAW to notation will be dropped.

---JC

Yeah, I figured... my main point is that 'notation' is kinda like real 'printing'... it's soon going to be something that people have done for vanity reasons (like expensive invitations to weddings with raised printing.) People will pull out a 'real' orchestra just for TV shows to look cool... just as today, I get asked to bring a 'vintage' archtop guitar or double bass to fit the 'ambience' of a particular show.

I totally want what the O/P 'dreams' of. Just never gonna happen. The market has spoken. And listening to most movie scores these days I gotta say, it made a poor decision. :D

 I've written a number of thorny posts here since I bought a VSL lib simply because I believe that as the link between MIDI/notation and samples becomes more tenuous the -quality- of music is declining... or at least morphing into something quite 'non-orchestral'.

I can count on the fingers of one hand recent movie scores where I can tell the guy knows how a violin really works... Rarely does one hear even the basic double stops or other idiomatic devices Beethoven or Hindemith would use intuitively---because they knew how to fiddle.

(Last score that really knocked me out? 'The Artist'... the guy just -channeled- Ravel and Jazz Age Orchestra. It's really -amazing- but no one notices it because of all the 'silent movie' thing.)

My point is that I can almost always tell a guy who's roots are in DAW... or a rocker turned 'composer' because the music is simply not 'genuine'. It always sounds truly unnatural to me because it sounds like what it is---a rich kid who hired an orchestra. I mean... back in the day, you didn't even get your music played by a lotta guys without having some -chops-.You just wouldn't hear a full orchestral rendering of anything that didn't have at least a basic level of harmony/counterpoint/etc. The effect of hearing 40 violins playing a bunch of trivial lines... as in most video games... is disconcerting for me because it wouldn't happen in real life if you take my meaning.

I'm sure that sounds insufferably elitist, but my point is that VSL is itself changing -music- into something quite different. I bought into it for one purpose (mock up) but really its market is quite something else. Not being judgmental, just telling you how I see it... and why 'the dream' will never happen.

---JC