Bach Sonata No. 1 -- Vioin Solo (First time recording and a few weeks with Special Edition I )

[David Kozin]

I just wanted to introduce myself. I have been toying around with my first step in purchasing any VSL product (a dream when the last I remember using was soundblaster with 1 MB in Soundfont) and on a college student budget.

So, here is it goes: This was a single pass recording of Bach Sonata No.1 (First Half) played with a single Midi Keyboard Controller to Logic running demos of Vienna MIR Pro & using only the Special Edition I & S.E. I Plus set.
Single Solo Violin with 95% one patch: pLeg, tril2 (sped up with rendering shortened samples) and sparse portamento (also time stretched).

There are mistakes, but as a first attempt I think it gives it a very natural quality of a real violinist, mistakes and took most care to give the bowing accurate sounds and the quality of performance over technical correctness.
https://soundcloud.com/alucinari/live-sonata-no-1-with-vienna
best wishes, and thoughts and criticisms welcome.
David

[William]

That's impressive that you did it live.  It sounds very expressive and natural.  The reverb could maybe be in a larger acoustic space.  The solo partitas of Bach seem to radiate outward with a harmony that is created both horizontally and vertically and could maybe even be done in the "Mystic Spaces" venue of MIR.   But the reverb is something you can easily adjust.   This is a really strong performance and very interesting to me because I always do things the opposite way, with endless tweaking of an already recorded sequence. 

[David Kozin]

For years, I coveted Vienna Symphonic Library (I owned an e-Licensecer almost a year before my first package). A poor college student who sold his violin many years ago, with past High School experience including Interlochen Youth Symphony. The Special Edition set was critical to be a finally affordable starter set for obtaining a foot in the door with quality string patches.

I have no experience as a recording engineer and appreciate your advice (I do know that I was unhappy with the sound quality after hearing it a day later). Incidently, the day VSL demo for Suite of plugins is up. However, I do know what a gentle touch (and focus of the mind) can do for expressiveness if I imagine my bow stroke direction, pressure and when I would take a breath or what notes would be louder because of a bow change or shift in elbow height. This can be heard (even if not optimal) even using one patch for all of the articulations in this case (obviously, this is not the norm and surely feel more can be done or I would not try a second recording).

I am working on recording a new version using a re-rendered portamento for creating open strings and to match the natural slides I would need for shifting into each position during double stops and match richness of shifting in position on lower string during a legato passage. Bach does give great freedom to the violinist, and although a borrowed Yahama Motif 6 as a controller: I close my eyes and feel the rosin and the strings and let my arms lift just as they would the bow.

I appreciate your kind words and look forward to more playing, and my entry into the community. William, I would love if you sent a string passage for me to play with this method. It is going to be some time to develop demo work. :) Best wishes, - David

[William]

David, this is just an immediate reaction, and maybe wrong, but you seem to have changed the performance a lot. It seems too slow to me, and my reaction is it is not as good a performance as the first one which sounded more powerful.  I also liked the trills and double stops on the first one better.   Though the acoustics are improved on the new version.  So I would go back to that first performance, and not mess with it at all!  Just put it in the second reverb space.  I do the same thing myself, tinkering with things that are good while trying to fix something that isn't so good.

By the way you have a great advantage, being a violinist seriously using samples, especially in being able to feel what the bow would naturally need to do after certain groups of notes, etc. Also, it is very interesting to me to hear this done "live."  I have a two movement violin solo which I am not satisfied with, and because of your work and another piece  that I heard here, which were very espressivo, I am going to revise it.  Thanks for posting this! 

[David Kozin]

My update was "reactionary" as you said. I agree with everything you said 100% and actually removing it off my SoundCloud account. I am moving on to a new project. I "thought" too much too quickly on the new one.

If I play it "for fun" it sounds exactly as I want, but add the pressure and quick fix to record then publish is never a good idea.

I would love to give a shot with any member's vioin/string solo/duet and provide input and play it as I violinist would:

1) Often involves ignoring your bow instructions
2) deciding on our own what strings are open/stopped.
3) "Does the composer think I am the first chair of the CSO?" The rapid scale becomes a quick succession of left hand finger tapping up in the right direction, but no chance of hitting the notes..."

It is an advantage to think of unusual uses of the instrument (and I am thinking I should rent a violin and record some patches to toss up for engineers to correct and use. The trick that you can have a strong vibrato on the G-string if you simply detune it a whole step (which produces a very unique tone) or vibrating the G with third finger on the D string while playing only the open G string (the subtle vibrato is less subtle than one would imagine) or why and when we will use a finger position and if you are having us play a first finger A on G string in a sequence of rapid bow-changes to play a melody on the A string (you are going to get a split second D-string vibrating in between the notes)
Time to record some parts with my own work, and I'll post on Soundcloud and perhaps a video of the live performance showing how I use my body to control my keyboard technique to play the passage.

I very much appreciate your encouragement, and intend on posting an updated set of violin arpeggios for bow technique in the spirit of Mendelssohn Violin Concerto.
David

[William]

 Did you record your performances to MIDI?  So they could be reproduced exactly in musical terms, but with different reverb?  Because I think that first performance is very impressive as a live demo.  I think it should be put as is, into a different acoustic space. Even the "mistakes" add something, since you succeeded in making them violin-characteristic mistakes.  Which is good in MIDI performances.  This performance in fact is making me think about my own recordings, and how using as much "liveness" to the performance as possible can add another dimension to the music.

[David Kozin]

Click here for the MIDI File of VSL verson 1&2
The new recordings for the MIDI file available at my soundcloud site as provided above.
Unfortunately, I just used the "Export to Audio from the selection" and did not think it was critical to save the MIDI file (Using Logic 9).

I did let a day go by, and using only the default legato patch with an increased trill2 rendered (20% horizontal increase w/render version 3) I recorded a live (half-played, unsatisfied and then restarted) version with default setttings for S.E. Violin (2 or 3 layers for velocity in Special Edition version?) pLeg. Vel.XF was not checked and Dynamic Scaler setting was 60-70 perhaps? Expression was set at max and unchanged until final two notes. I did export the MIDI events, and the MIDI file for the recording is available at one of my personal sites: www.alteredvision.org home page. The MIDI file is complete, and expression adjustment used only once via Mod Wheel (last two notes) so this can be recreated with the variables for the Note-on and off events. It will be obvious that C1/D1 used for switching between pLeg & tril2. I recorded using a larger space. Increasing the scale of dynamics could be the art here, but I believe plays without any noticable surprise sFz's popping up as artifacts in the middle of a legato scale even if Dyn.scale is set at max.

Best wishes!
David Kozin
(formerly hppdonline username)