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Which Do You Prefer - Vienna Suite or MIR?
Last post Fri, Feb 15 2013 by Dietz, 8 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Feb 12 2013 19:24
by corte1
Joined on Sat, Oct 16 2010, Posts 85

Hi Everyone,

I have both MIR and Vienna Suite. I write larger orchestral works and while I love being able to position my instruments on the stage using MIR, I find that I typically prefer the final sound I can achieve with just the Vienna Suite. I find that MIR's sound is a bit to distant. I've tried moving the main microphone (and secondary microphone) almost on top of the orchestra and lowering the total reverb, but no matter what hall I choose or how I reposition and tweak, I find the Vienna Suite allows me to achieve a "closer" and more intimate sound and I end up turning off MIR and just using Vienna Suite.

Does anyone feel the same way?

I'm sure if I knew more of the technical aspects of MIR, I could better get to the final sound I want, but so far, my ears prefer the reverbs of Vienna Suite as opposed to MIR.

Corte Swearingen

Chicago

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2013 12:08
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7797

Hi Corte,

I'm sure that fellow users will chime in with first-hand experiences soon. :-) ... In the meantime, let me please clarify some points regarding MIR Pro.

First of all: MIR is capable of creating a wide variety of natural acoustic enviroments, be it an almost dry studio setting (a nice example here), a classical orchestral hall (example here), typcial scoring stages used for film scores (example here), or highly evocative, mystic surroundings (a great piece of music here). The most important decision is to find the MIR Venue that fits your needs, therefore.

Second: Within a Venue there are usually up to four main individual microphone array available, each of them in a different distance from the actual stage. It's important to understand that _moving_ a Main Microphone by hand from the back of the hall closer to the stage will just change the decoding geometry, _not_ the IRs themselves (... which means: even if you move the Main Mic forward by 20 meters, the sound of the room wil still be the one form the back of the hall). You will have to select another set of IRs by chosing a different Main Microphone to get a closer sound. - Most of the time, this will be Mic 1.

Third: You have several ways to change the relation between the direct signal and the actual MIR signal within the application. You can do this either for each "Icon" on a MIR stage individually, or by using the global "Wet / Dry Offset" feature in the Output section of MIR Pro. (The latter is most likely the feature you should try first, right now ;-) ...).

Fourth: If you like the sound you get, but find the actual reverb length to be too overwhelming for your taste and needs, just use the Reverb Scaling slider in the Output section to shorten the overall reverb length of a MIR Venue.

Fifth: A bit more advanced, but very effective nonetheless: Try to use a different Main Microphone setup instead the default setting. If you want to hear less "space", then it's always a good idea to use virtual microphones that don't pick up so much sound from the back. A good choice would be the "M/S Stereo with Cardioid M", which is available form the huge list of pre-configured setups. - (BTW - the other extreme would be a Blumlein-setup consisting of two crossed Figure-8-capsules: Here you would get as much room-sound from the rear as you get from the front.)

Finally: It's obvious that features like the optional Secondary Microphone inside a Venue or the use of MIR Pro's algorithmic reverb add-on ("MIRacle") will make the overall mix sounding more wet, not more intimate. Make sure that you aren't using them unintentionally.

... maybe these points can give you some input for the successful use of MIR Pro. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2013 16:13
by didger
Joined on Sat, Oct 27 2007, Salt Lake City, Posts 68

You left out one simple clarification, Dietz. Corte, do you have Roompack 2? That's where you've got to start for a drier sound in MIR.

Posted on Wed, Feb 13 2013 23:32
by corte1
Joined on Sat, Oct 16 2010, Posts 85

Yes, I have Roompack 2. I actually love the sound of the Schubertsaal.

And thanks Dietz - your suggestions were spot on - I was quickly able to make some adjustments to find a setting that has really brought things to life. Thanks for the great tips! For me, the "M/S Stero with Cardioid M" mic worked quite well.

Corte

Posted on Thu, Feb 14 2013 11:28
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7797
didger wrote:

You left out one simple clarification, Dietz. Corte, do you have Roompack 2? That's where you've got to start for a drier sound in MIR.

Well, yes, of course, and thanks for the free ad ;-) - but all the hints I gave in my previous post are valid for a "drier" sound with RoomPack 1 (Konzerthaus) and 3 (Mystic Spaces), too.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Feb 14 2013 11:29
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7797
corte1 wrote:

Yes, I have Roompack 2. I actually love the sound of the Schubertsaal.

And thanks Dietz - your suggestions were spot on - I was quickly able to make some adjustments to find a setting that has really brought things to life. Thanks for the great tips! For me, the "M/S Stero with Cardioid M" mic worked quite well.

Corte

You're welcome, Corte. Yes, Vienna Konzerthaus Schubertsaal is a great location for small ensembles up to a quintet or the like.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Feb 15 2013 17:01
by Stephane Collin
Joined on Sun, Aug 02 2009, Posts 96
Same feeling here.

Actually, I get very good results using MIR Roompacks 1 and 2 on classical singers. Nothing I know of comes close to this perfection.
As for strings (orchestral, solo and dimension, as well as live ones), I find myself tweaking around for a much longer time. I sometimes end up using just the positionning on MIR, reducing the wet signal, and adding a tail in the Vienna Suite Convolution reverb (I like the FORTI halls and scoring stages). I also appreciate the great presets in Miracle, which I often use.
I will certainly experiment the mic setups following Dietz reccomendations. And hearing the Bacos demo with Mystic Places, I immediately bought those. Looks like this is more the sound I'm after.
Will you roompack the Concertgebouw at Amsterdam ? Or the Flagey Studio 4 in Brussels ?
Anyway, great and clever software that I am proud to use.

Stephane

PC core i7 hexa 64 gb ram
Macbook pro 6 gb ram
Motu 8M
Genelec 1030 A monitors
Adam S3X H monitors
Sennheiser HD 800 headphones
Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro headphones
Many Vienna Instruments
MIR pro
Posted on Fri, Feb 15 2013 17:42
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7797
delafange wrote:
[...] Or the Flagey Studio 4 in Brussels? [...]

That must be a great place! Thanks for the hint.

Judging from the info available online, ORF Großer Sendesaal (part of RoomPack 2) should give you comparable results, as it was built for similar tasks.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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