Performance Legato

[Pyre]

Sorry, just to clarify something - am I right in thinking that the first note in a Performance Legato sequence will always be a 'normal' note, like a sustain articulation, and those that follow will be smooth?

If I have a fast violin sequence of a detache followed by three performance legatos, will the first legato note be transitioned from the detache? Or will it start as if standalone, and only transition to the two that follow it?

Many thanks.

Pyre

[MassMover]

Why don't you just listen what happens?

It will transition from the detache patch.

[William]

The nice thing about the legato patches is you can transition from any starting note that is long enough.  This includes those detaches you mentioned, as well as dynamic patches, portatos, whatever.    If you keep the notes connected once you have gone to legato, all the remaining ones will be more legatos.  One thing to keep in mind is that a string player tends to work in two-note phrases,  and to an extent "runs out of" legato and has to switch to a new bow, so rarely will you hear more than one legato transition in a row. 

[Pyre]

I had not thought of that, I'd been setting entire sections to legato without really considering it. Thanks very much, both of you, that's very helpful indeed.

Pyre

[strytten]

I'm not a string player, but this two note only legato concept is surprising and doesn't sound right to me. If it is true, how did they handle the original recording sessions when the samples were collected? Did they have to collect every other interval in order to get all the legato intervals? Don't string players take pride in making each interval sound precise regardless of whether they're rebowing? I'd love to hear from Vienna and from string players on this. 

[Casiquire]

Technically a rebow would be required after only a couple seconds of playing, however, string players do work hard to make rebows inaudible, so I've felt no need to make an audible rebow in my recordings.  Also the whole topic goes out the window when we're talking about sections because a full string section can cover individual rebows and perform endless legato or even endless glissando.

[noldar12]

Depending on the phrase, the duration of the notes, and the desired volume, it is possible for a strings player to play more than two notes in one bow, sometimes several more.  Playing four notes on the same bow stroke is not at all uncommon.

[Conquer]

@strytten said:

Did they have to collect every other interval in order to get all the legato intervals?

Yes, they recorded every interval up to an octave, up and down, for every note on the instrument. That's why it sounds so good.

[William]

 If you would read what I actually wrote it was string players TEND to do two note legato phrases.   I never said  they CANNOT do more than that.  It depends on how loud or fast the music is - for example if it is very soft and light more legatos can be executed on one string.  Also, depending on the music it will be different.  Much Baroque or Classical music DOES use two note phrases in legato and any string section will tend to do that normally.  In addition to that it also depends on if you are defining legato as sul or on one bow, or if it is separate bows that are still closely connected.  I assumed this is samples that are being talked about, and the "real" legato is not separately bowed closely connected notes, but rather single bow notes that are slid between by means of fingering changes not bow changes.

The samples were all recorded with single legato transitions in each velocity layer. An extremely time-consuming and difficult process.  Each note is connected to another note by a single legato or portamento transition.  That is recorded - each and every one - separately (though they can be recorded in groups they all have to be handled in editing separately) and then dissected from the original note. This  single transitional note can be used as a "target" note from any new separate sample.  That includes very different samples such as the example of a crescendo that goes from pp to ff and then is connected to an ff transition sample to an ff target note.   Or any other sample in addition to the normally used sustains (as I mentioned) that is long enough to do an overlap and thereby trigger legato.

[noldar12]

William, I am sorry I misread your post - for reasons I don't care to go into, misreading something can be a common error for me.

[William]

 No problem, I never noticed you misreading things.     

[Stephane Collin]

Nice topic.

Funny, sometimes I can hear a legato slur from a ghost f# note up to the lowest g on some violin patches.  Scordatura ?

Stephane.

[MassMover]

It's not happening sometimes, it happens ALWAYS when you press and hold d#, e, f or f# on a violin patch and then g or higher. You do not hear the note below g itself, but you hear a recorded legato transition to the target note.

On dimension violins all notes from d# work, on the solo violin there is no transition from f, and on the other string instruments (viola, cello...) there might be some differences, too.

I always was wondering, where this is coming from. Maybe they planned to give the opportunity for scordatura and recorded lower notes as sustains as well, but then threw the plan overboard, but forgot to eleminate the transition from the programming.

[johnstaf]

I just discovered that today. It's a fascinating insight into the way VSL performance legato works. I just started on Dimension Strings and my violin legato was sloppy. I was used to only using monophonic legato, where the note-off timing doesn't really matter. These scordatura remnants were a great help in finding the best way to play the pLeg violins. A slightly non-legato touch on the keyboard makes the note transitions sound fantastic.