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USB3 vs. internal sata
Last post Tue, Oct 29 2013 by William, 13 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Oct 22 2013 22:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

On a Win 7 computer i7 920 I am thinking of going to SSD for VSL sample storage instead of the two SATA2 hard drives I now have.  The motherboard has USB 3 so I am wondering if it is recommended to use external SSDs with that connection,  or is an internal SATA connection better to do?  Also, is a single larger SSD better to use, or two smaller ones? 

Thanks if you can shed some light on this...
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Posted on Fri, Oct 25 2013 03:10
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

O.K., nobody knows?
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Posted on Sat, Oct 26 2013 01:09
by EP
Joined on Wed, Dec 10 2008, Posts 48

(not sure where my earlier posts went)

I asked a similar question awhile ago and got a response from Cyril.  Typically, the speed is 3Gbit/s for SATA2, 5Gbit/s for USB3, and 6Bbit/s for SSD.  So you don't get any benefit in using SSD with SATA2.  You will gain in performance with USB3 but you don't fully use the SSD capability.  It's best to test the speed of your USB3 port or check you computer spec to determine how fast it is because the performance varies among computers.
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Posted on Sat, Oct 26 2013 03:59
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2763

Thanks EP.

 If your SSD is SATA III, the best is to use Sata III ;), if your SSD is SATA II, SATA II or USB III will do the job 

If you want to get information it is good to go on WIKI !

You just type "WIKI SATA" or "WIKI USB" in Google 

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 3, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa
Many Sychron Instruments

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
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Posted on Sat, Oct 26 2013 17:09
by user_67004
Joined on Sat, Feb 16 2013, Posts 7
Putting a SSD on USB 3 is a waste of money....you'll get the same results as a 7200HDD on USB 3. I recommend installing the SSD internally on a SATA III port, or via an external eSATA connection if you have one. Unless you're using a huge library such as EastWest's Hollywood Diamond series, a single SSD is adequate.
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Posted on Sun, Oct 27 2013 17:13
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

 Ep, Wolfie and Cyril, thanks - that is some very useful info!

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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 01:09
by EP
Joined on Wed, Dec 10 2008, Posts 48

 Hi Wofie2112,

I would like to learn more about why a SSD on USB3 gets the same results as a 7200HDD on USB3.   Would you explain a bit more in details?   Is there a benchmark available somewhere that I can look up for the comparision?   Thanks. 
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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 06:36
by fiestared
Joined on Wed, Sep 01 2010, France, Posts 46
Hello,

I'm a little bit surprised by the answer "Putting a SSD on USB 3 is a waste of money....you'll get the same results as a 7200HDD on USB 3" Wow ! Some people should think twice before answering these................. SSD on USB3 is so much faster ! I only use a SSD crucial(M500 960) on USB3 for all my libraries, it changed my experience with the Virtual Instruments. I don't hesitate to try huge patches anymore with Dimension Strings, you don't have the time to see the bar, it's already loaded.
F.red
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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 09:04
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2763
fiestared wrote:
Hello,
I'm a little bit surprised by the answer "Putting a SSD on USB 3 is a waste of money....you'll get the same results as a 7200HDD on USB 3" Wow ! Some people should think twice before answering these................. SSD on USB3 is so much faster ! I only use a SSD crucial(M500 960) on USB3 for all my libraries, it changed my experience with the Virtual Instruments. I don't hesitate to try huge patches anymore with Dimension Strings, you don't have the time to see the bar, it's already loaded. F.red

I think I have read : if you  have a USB 2 on the same buss you lose 5,36 gb/s,

If  all devices are USB 3, you lose 1 Gb/s

Sata III is 6 Gb/s, USB 3 is 5 Gb/s.

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 3, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa
Many Sychron Instruments

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 13:55
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

 You are saying that if one installs a USB 2 device on a USB 3 bus  it will degrade another USB 3 device's speed to USB 2?  I have a computer with both USB 2 and USB 3 ports and the motherboard states there are USB 2 and USB 3 bus. So one should not put a USB 2 device on the USB 3 port ? 

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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 17:48
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2763
William wrote:

 You are saying that if one installs a USB 2 device on a USB 3 bus  it will degrade another USB 3 device's speed to USB 2?  I have a computer with both USB 2 and USB 3 ports and the motherboard states there are USB 2 and USB 3 bus. So one should not put a USB 2 device on the USB 3 port ? 

I have said, " I think I have read ", this mean I am not sure at 99 %

You can put a USB 2 device on a USB 3 port but it will not improve the speed of your USB 2 device

You would not be surprised that if you put a USB 2 device on the same BUS than a USB 3 device,  the USB 3 device  will work at the speed of the USB 2

I cannot test it because I dont have a USB 3 on my MacPro. Can somebody do the test ?

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 3, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa
Many Sychron Instruments

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 20:05
by EP
Joined on Wed, Dec 10 2008, Posts 48

 From what I understand if your computer has more the one USB3 devices and if these USB3 devices share the same controller, and if you plug in a USB2 device to one of the USB3 ports it may cause the controller to operate at the lowest speed of the common devices.  I don't know if this applies to every controller but it is something to watch out for.
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Posted on Tue, Oct 29 2013 20:45
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

 That makes sense.  The computer I have has completely separate row of USB3 ports, marked clearly in distinction to the USB2 ports.  This would obviously indicate a need to keep the devices separate which  I will do.  I am going to try an external USB3 SSD on this system since I am already using a lot of space on existing internal hard drives and don't want to get rid of them.  Thanks very much for the ideas.     

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