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New Black Mac Pro vs last gen 12-Core MP ?
Last post Tue, Jan 21 2014 by cm, 61 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Dec 26 2013 04:45
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2675

Hi William 

This HP station is only 4 cores !

The 12 core HP station is 9999 $ and that without graphic cards and without Thunderbolt 

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?ProductUUID=tdMQ7EN5zgQAAAFBXYFNbJcf&CatalogCategoryID=x.IQ7habXDwAAAFCulgtkXzC&JumpTo=OfferList

The link you gave us does not compare to the high-end 12 core Mac (2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache) that is at 6999 $ 

You can buy this 6 999 $ Mac at Apple and buy the memory and SSD extensions elswhere (Crucial .......)

Our main concern is going Thunderbolt, the Thunderbolt to PCIe chassis are quite expensive at the moment because Thunderbolt is only starting, and we have audio cards !

Best

Cyril

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Dec 26 2013 15:44
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

If you look at the HP link it goes to different models and options including more cores and graphics cards including a Tesla which is huge capacity.  Many different possibilities so it is complicated to figure out exact costs.

Concerning the Mac Pro I was not talking about Thunderbolt drives for sample playback, but  wanted to use the internal pcle flash which would be even faster, using this machine as a slave in an already established system.  This internal pcle memory would apparently be the fastest for sample streaming.   Also, it would be very compact  with a single terabyte drive storing all the current VSL samples.  

The Thunderbolt ports are extremely fast though so if you exceeded the internal memory (with more Dimension Strings??? yeah! ) one could expand in that direction.  As long as one is dreaming.  

Posted on Thu, Dec 26 2013 19:00
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2675
William wrote:

If you look at the HP link it goes to different models and options including more cores and graphics cards including a Tesla which is huge capacity.  Many different possibilities so it is complicated to figure out exact costs.

I have seen this !

But there is no secret, if the HP 12 core is costing 9900$, the expansion of the one you selected will cost the same or even more !

(in France we are saying : you cannot get the butter, it's milk and the farmer's wife  LOL)

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Dec 26 2013 21:52
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/12/24/apples-new-mac-pro-a-better-value-than-the-sum-of-its-parts

Another take on the price comparison

Posted on Fri, Dec 27 2013 19:27
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

That's an excellent article - very useful.  I was too lazy to do the actual price differences so it is great to see the point for point comparison.  Given the fact I am shooting 4K video also,  this is all becoming very alarming for my bank account.   Surprise

Posted on Sat, Dec 28 2013 04:30
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2675
julian wrote:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/12/24/apples-new-mac-pro-a-better-value-than-the-sum-of-its-parts

Another take on the price comparison

Very good article.

I have been looking for the price of the AMD FirePro D500 and D700, could not find them, it looks it's a special production for Apple

So they compare with AMD FirePro W9000 GPUs at $3,399.99 each, I don't know much about graphic cards but the price is very high for a graphic card !

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Dec 30 2013 01:31
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

The question is - for VSL sample use, is the 12-core really needed? 

I was pricing the 8-core 3 ghz with maxed out RAM and PCLe and none of the more expensive graphics cards,  and it is about $2,000 cheaper.  

One other thing - I just read that you can upgrade the CPU !  Is that true?  Many people seem uncertain about it.  

If so, then one could get a base Mac Pro and later - when some more funds come in - upgrade everything.

Posted on Mon, Dec 30 2013 01:57
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

Logic uses multicores really well including when using solely VSL au's so 12 core would be fully utilised but other DAW's may be different.

The CPU is socketed and potentially can be upgraded.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/27/new-mac-pro-confirmed-to-have-removable-cpu/

The flash storage is user updatable.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6061?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Julian

Posted on Mon, Dec 30 2013 07:33
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2675

8 core x 3 ghz = 24

12 core x 2.7 ghz = 32.4 

If you have a large orchestral template it's better to have a 12 core !

Upgrading a CPU is not a good idea you will pay a lot more !

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Dec 31 2013 02:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561
Cyril wrote:

8 core x 3 ghz = 24

12 core x 2.7 ghz = 32.4 

If you have a large orchestral template it's better to have a 12 core !

Upgrading a CPU is not a good idea you will pay a lot more !

well of course it is better to have 12 core.  It would be better to have a Cray Quantum Computer with a Multiverse Internet Connection. 

But I was talking about saving just a little money.  Never mind.  I will figure it out by myself.  A better way to work anyway.

Posted on Tue, Dec 31 2013 02:38
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
William wrote:
Cyril wrote:

8 core x 3 ghz = 24

12 core x 2.7 ghz = 32.4 

If you have a large orchestral template it's better to have a 12 core !

Upgrading a CPU is not a good idea you will pay a lot more !

well of course it is better to have 12 core.  It would be better to have a Cray Quantum Computer with a Multiverse Internet Connection. 

But I was talking about saving just a little money.  Never mind.  I will figure it out by myself.  A better way to work anyway.

I think there may definitely be a case for buying a 4 core or 6 core MacPro and in 18 months to 24 months swapping out the CPU. By then you may be able to get a 12 core with a higher clock speed than the current offerings for well under half the price. At the moment the 12 option looks to be particularly expensive for the performance increase - the processor upgrade alone is about the same as buying a complete new 6 core MacPro!

Unless you are urgently needing a new computer it may be worth waiting a couple of months then speaking with OWC http://eshop.macsales.com about the viability of future upgrades.

Julian

Posted on Tue, Dec 31 2013 03:19
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

Thanks Julian that sounds like a good idea.   I am just leery of going for the "ultimate" system simply because it is advertised that way.

I remember hearing about the Synclavier.   It was the "ultimate" sampler.  It cost more than $100,000 and used a mainframe.

Today a small orchestral sound module that costs about $300 has more power. 

Though of course you can't wait around forever simply because technology is always improving.  

Posted on Tue, Dec 31 2013 04:57
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2675
julian wrote:

[ At the moment the 12 option looks to be particularly expensive for the performance increase - the processor upgrade alone is about the same as buying a complete new 6 core MacPro!

The high end processors will be always VERY expensive ! And Intel will always change something so you need to change the mother board !

A way to save money is :

Buy the Quad core = 2999 $

Buy the 12 core processor at ??? Newegg = 2749 $   (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925)

Total = 5748 $

If you buy directly the 12 core it is 6999 $ 

So you save 6999 - 5748 = 1251 $

You have 12 GB of memory instead of 16 GB !

But you are taking risks, I will wait that other persons does the deal !

Unless Apple clearly specify you can upgrade your Macpro with processors bought elsewhere, if you have problems you need to return the Macpro with the original processor !

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Dec 31 2013 18:12
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

That's an interesting idea Cyril and I am thinking that may be the way to go.

Posted on Thu, Jan 02 2014 10:38
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9109

teardown macPro

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Pro+Late+2013+Teardown/20778

http://blog.macsales.com/22108-new-mac-pro-2013-teardown

confirms the CPU is sitting in a socket ... just the PCIe SSD appears to be proprietary and i wonder if the 1TB model contains 2 of those devices (completing the symmetry).

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Thu, Jan 02 2014 11:24
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

Hi CM,

Do you think MIR, VE, or VI Pro will be able to utilise the GPU resources for computational tasks at some point in the future (particularly as a plug-in).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013

This comprehensivew review from Anandtech indicates future leaps forward will be more GPU than CPU based and that software that is able to address this will benefit most.

Julian

Posted on Thu, Jan 02 2014 13:21
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7540

Hi Julian,

"Never say never!", ;-) ... but at least in case of MIR Pro I can assure you that we have no plans to switch to GPU-processing in the forseeable future.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jan 02 2014 13:24
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7540

PS: ... although we in fact _had_ plans for that back in 2004! (I just looked it up.) ;-D

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jan 02 2014 20:43
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5561

 

cm wrote:

teardown macPro

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Pro+Late+2013+Teardown/20778

http://blog.macsales.com/22108-new-mac-pro-2013-teardown

confirms the CPU is sitting in a socket ... just the PCIe SSD appears to be proprietary and i wonder if the 1TB model contains 2 of those devices (completing the symmetry).

So this would mean getting the maximum  PCLe memory right now. 

Posted on Mon, Jan 06 2014 04:28
by dbudde
Joined on Sun, Mar 02 2003, Seattle,WA USA, Posts 449
cm wrote:

i wonder if the 1TB model contains 2 of those devices (completing the symmetry).

It's a single module.  The Mac Pro has used all of the available PCIe lanes.  So there is no possibility without a chipset change to allow for two SSD modules.

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